A hypothetical IMF loan to the US. - Page 3

piece-itpete · #21 10-14-2009, 03:34 PM

Wow, I guess Reagan was a lot more powerful than most Presidents, to accomplish all that singlehandedly

So, why haven't the Dems raised taxes yet?

Pete

Fast_Eddie · #22 10-14-2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Wow, I guess Reagan was a lot more powerful than most Presidents, to accomplish all that singlehandedly

So, why haven't the Dems raised taxes yet?

Pete

Reagan was a masterful politician and the first one ruthless enough to knowingly mislead Americans into believing they could have something that was too good to be true. But he didn't do it alone. He had plenty of help. Reagan also wasn't overly concerned with doing things in a manner you might call "legal". Ask Ollie North about that.

Why haven't the Democrats raised taxes? I can only guess it's because they like their jobs and realize that people still believe Reagan's big lie. "I'm going to raise your taxes" isn't a strong line for someone trying to get elected.

Take care,

Ed

Fast_Eddie · #23 10-14-2009, 05:50 PM

Here's a pretty good analysis of how Reagan caused our current economic crisis.

http://hnn.us/articles/53527.html

Found another good one:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/01/op...gman.html?_r=1

Charles · #24 10-14-2009, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

Reagan was a masterful politician and the first one ruthless enough to knowingly mislead Americans into believing they could have something that was too good to be true. But he didn't do it alone. He had plenty of help. Reagan also wasn't overly concerned with doing things in a manner you might call "legal". Ask Ollie North about that.

Why haven't the Democrats raised taxes? I can only guess it's because they like their jobs and realize that people still believe Reagan's big lie. "I'm going to raise your taxes" isn't a strong line for someone trying to get elected.

Take care,

Ed

I have to admit, saying "I'm going to raise your taxes" is pretty much DOA.

Never heard of the HNN, Krugman is left leaning economist. While he has a viewpoint, it is not the Rosetta Stone. Economics is such a difficult subject that it leaves not only the prophets, but the Monday morning quarterbacks with egg on their face.

There is a school of thought, by credible "smart guys", who can make an impressive argument that FDR prolonged the depression and only WWII brought it to an end.

Who knows what the answer is. Kinda like raising teenagers...you can talk to one and get results, you can't kick another one's ass enough to keep him from stealing your car. And six months later you will probably have to change tactics on both.

In other words, you need to remain fluid.

What very little I understand about Keynesian economics is that during hard times you open the public tap to stimulate the economy. Tax cuts, fire up the printing press, etc. But I also believe that Lord Keynes advocated filling the hollow tree full on nuts while times are good.

Saving, I believe it's called.

Sadly, a point lost on both parties, not to mention the world stage.

I'm not going to get this perfect, but I'll give it my best shot. One of the Rothschilds was quoted as saying, "Let me control a nations currency, and I care not who makes the laws."

Who knows, I for sure don't. Dow Jones has went up 50% from it's low, gold's went up, what 10/15% from it's high. Don't forget, gold is a commodity.

Even the "Oracle from Omaha" admits that we're into uncharted territory. And lost a ton of money proving it.

Making this mess political is missing the point. No one has the answer. Hold your cards tight to your vent, bet light, and wait until your luck changes...it you have the time.

Ain't the first time something like this has happened, and it won't be the last.

May Lady Luck be your Mistress,

Chas

merrylander · #25 10-15-2009, 07:42 AM

It surely will not be the last time it hits the fan as long as we let those thieves at Wall Street run unchecked. As for economists (my son majored in commerce) I would as soon believe a tea leaf reader or some medium with a crystal ball.

Fast_Eddie · #26 10-15-2009, 10:07 AM

Good post Chas,

I certainly tend to agree that Keynesian economics seemed to be doing a pretty good job keeping thing moving along. Sure, there were good times and bad. But the current situation started with the massive deregulation in the 80s and in the admittedly brief time we've traveled this road things seem to be considerably less stable. I don't think it's a huge leap to say "maybe we should revisit that". One thing does seem quite clear- the assumption that markets and corporations will "self regulate" in a more open environment seems to have been incorrect. Reagan was just wrong. It didn't work. But the great tax lie is so strong we'll have a very difficult time getting people of a different mind back in office. "We need to be responsible with our money" is the exact line that kept Republicans *out* of power for so long. Now they've abandoned it entirely and instead promise everything under the sun.

Well, maybe Hu Jintao will figure it all out for down the road a bit.

Good Day Comrade!

Ed

piece-itpete · #27 10-15-2009, 01:13 PM

We are considerably more wealthy today as a society than before Reagan took office. And what, the last 25 years existed in a vacuum?

Quote:

Originally Posted by merrylander

It surely will not be the last time it hits the fan as long as we let those thieves at Wall Street run unchecked. As for economists (my son majored in commerce) I would as soon believe a tea leaf reader or some medium with a crystal ball.

Now that I can agree, QFT

Pete

merrylander · #28 10-15-2009, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

We are considerably more wealthy today as a society than before Reagan took office. And what, the last 25 years existed in a vacuum?
Pete

Correction, some people are considerably more wealthy, most of the middle class and below are marching in place at best. The only good thing to come out of all of this mess is the drop in the dollar. It has effectively given me a 25% raise in my Bell Canada pension, the $CDN is now at $0.9745.

piece-itpete · #29 10-15-2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merrylander

Correction, some people are considerably more wealthy, most of the middle class and below are marching in place at best. The only good thing to come out of all of this mess is the drop in the dollar. It has effectively given me a 25% raise in my Bell Canada pension, the $CDN is now at $0.9745.

Congrats on your raise!

When I was young, most still had 1 tv and 1, maybe 2 cars.

And the house size! Whoa. In light of this I don't see how things are the same or worse.

And the poor, back when I first moved to the hood no one had AC, on a hot day everyone was outside. Now so many have AC on a hot day there isn't many out at all.

Pete

Twodogs · #30 10-15-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Congrats on your raise!

When I was young, most still had 1 tv and 1, maybe 2 cars.

And the house size! Whoa. In light of this I don't see how things are the same or worse.

And the poor, back when I first moved to the hood no one had AC, on a hot day everyone was outside. Now so many have AC on a hot day there isn't many out at all.

Pete

Exactly Pete, the "middle class" today has things light years better than they did 50 years ago. My Dad was a Union guy and made a decent living, but we never had two cars, central air, etc.. I wish another "Regan" would emerge from the Republican Party and save this country again. I'm afraid though, that Obama has done more permanent damage in 10 months than Carter did all told.