One Hundred and Fifty Years Ago On This Day

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by JJIII

My post was in reply to Zeke and Charles "on Obama’s skipping out on the 150th anniversary of the Gettysburg Address today."


(Bolded from the link.)

That's all.

I don't get your what you're saying here. I assume you thought Hayward (that's Steven Hayward, the author of the thing you linked-to) was kind-of right-on, since you posted the link. You seem to think there's some truth there. You say it indicates what Obama 'somewhat feels.'

So my post taking issue with Hayward's speck of so-called evidence as to what's in Obama's mind isn't on point?

[JJIII]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

I don't get your what you're saying here. I assume you thought Hayward (that's Steven Hayward, the author of the thing you linked-to) was kind-of right-on, since you posted the link. You seem to think there's some truth there. You say it indicates what Obama 'somewhat feels.'

So my post taking issue with Hayward's speck of so-called evidence as to what's in Obama's mind isn't on point?

Zeke said that he thought the adoration of Lincoln was a little much. (Paraphrasing here.) Charles agreed. I was merely pointing out that Mr. Obama apparently thinks so too, as evidenced by his not showing up at the ceremony.
Kind of strange to me since Lincoln "freed the slaves" and Mr. Obama is the first black President. I think he (Obama) had a chance to make a positive statement but he had "scheduling conflicts".

As for the rest of the article, I make no comments either way about it.

[donquixote99]

Well, if the point is to guess what's in Obama's mind, my guess is he knows his numbers are down, and fears that when pundits parse his words with razors looking for things to criticize, they will find more sympathetic ears than usual. It's therefore a good time for him to keep his mouth shut, especially when the subject is so loaded as Lincoln at Gettysburg.

[JJIII]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Well, if the point is to guess what's in Obama's mind, my guess is he knows his numbers are down, and fears that when pundits parse his words with razors looking for things to criticize, they will find more sympathetic ears than usual. It's therefore a good time for him to keep his mouth shut, especially when the subject is so loaded as Lincoln at Gettysburg.

Well.. OK.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

He may not be the indispensable man that Washington was. He also might have been though.

Look at his predecessor. That said they're all hyped almost like a national religion.

Great link John, thanks!

Pete

Anyone who thinks Obama is the "worst president ever", needs to read up on James Buchanan. It's quite possible that the Civil War might have never happened had Buchanan possessed a spine.

Dave

[Charles]

Lincoln was a politician, a very good one, who abandoned the Whigs and became a Republican, and is credited with saving the Union. At the point of the bayonet, and the suspension of Habeas corpus...I might add.

Perhaps a master politician could have accomplished the same without becoming complicit in one of the bloodiest civil wars in modern history, perhaps the die was already set.

But the man was not a deity. And whenever society elevates one to the position of a deity, they eliminate any rational criticism of their newly created god.

I kind of like to look at my gods warts and all...being I've never seen any wisdom in bowing to a myth.

Chas

[donquixote99]

Oh, I agree he's not a diety. But he's got quite a temple on the mall anyway.

He went to war because he was told it would be quickly won, while ducking it would have been difficult and probably politically ruinous. A 'police action' was what was expected; the army would march south and restore order. He had no experience to tell him how bad it could be, and the experienced guys were very confident.

The Habaes Corpus suspension was completely justified and proper under the circumstances, except the Constitution gives Congress the power to do it, not the President. But Congress ducked making it legal, preferring to leave Lincoln stuck with the onus.

Now I'm OK with criticism of Lincoln in principle, if well-founded. But most of it is trite and tainted with Southern Revisionism.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Charles

But the man was not a deity. And whenever society elevates one to the position of a deity, they eliminate any rational criticism of their newly created god.

I kind of like to look at my gods warts and all...being I've never seen any wisdom in bowing to a myth.

Chas

Me neither, as is evidenced by the long list of people who hate me, or at least appear mystified by my refusal to deify St. Ronnie as they expect me to do.

To my mind, the guy was just a smartass bullshitter who got lucky enough to be in the right place when the Soviet pig finally rolled and wheezed it's last breath. And, that in the short run his economic policies may have provided a temporary boost, but in the long run are a disaster that led to unrealistic expectations of perpetual fealty to corporate interests.

Or, as Bill Maher recently put it, "Yeah, we all know you want slave labor with a tax and regulation free business environment. Well, tough shit, you can't have it."

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Oh, I agree he's not a diety. But he's got quite a temple on the mall anyway.

He went to war because he was told it would be quickly won, while ducking it would have been difficult and probably politically ruinous. A 'police action' was what was expected; the army would march south and restore order. He had no experience to tell him how bad it could be, and the experienced guys were very confident.

The Habaes Corpus suspension was completely justified and proper under the circumstances, except the Constitution gives Congress the power to do it, not the President. But Congress ducked making it legal, preferring to leave Lincoln stuck with the onus.

Now I'm OK with criticism of Lincoln in principle, if well-founded. But most of it is trite and tainted with Southern Revisionism.

How DARE you suggest southerners would revise history to pretty it up and make themselves feel better, Sir!!! Why such moral and dignified gentlemen would nevah DREAM of such a thang!

Dave

[piece-itpete]

Without war the Union would have been split.

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Me neither, as is evidenced by the long list of people who hate me, or at least appear mystified by my refusal to deify St. Ronnie as they expect me to do.

....

Heathen!

Pete