"by August 31, 2010, our combat mission in Iraq will end"

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by Charles

Ed, you are 100% correct.

From what I understand, the personnel on the carrier hung the "Mission Accomplished" sign on their own. But it doesn't really matter.



Chas

they why does he regret it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNSQgZGhJkE

here is the sign, this was not thrown together by the sailors

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1fjmr-Kmxk

They may have hung the sign on their own but it was clearly choreographed along with Bush's arrival.

But honestly, it's just not a big deal. Going into Iraq was the big deal.

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by Charles

What does matter is the fact that we're all in the same boat. Both Bush and Obama did, and are, doing the best that they can under difficult situations.

The situation has never been made worse by being civil and understanding...as far as I know.

Agreed. I would love to turn on the TV and see someone, anyone, talking about the best way forward in Iraq and Afghanistan. If they talk about it at all anymore it's just one side saying the other messed it up worse than their side did. I would be interested in hearing about what the dynamics of the situation are, what our long term goals and plans are and differing ideas about how they might be accomplished. I would like to hear that from people who aren't already decided that whatever the other guy says is not only wrong, but dangerous and stupid and almost certainly he is a subversive who is trying to undermine American security. I've had plenty of that.

Take care,


Ed

(edit) Oh, for the record, I wasn't referring to the banner. I was referring to the text of the speech and was paraphrasing the opening line.

"Admiral Kelly, Captain Card, officers and sailors of the USS Abraham Lincoln, my fellow Americans: Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed. And now our coalition is engaged in securing and reconstructing that country."

[Charles]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

Agreed. I would love to turn on the TV and see someone, anyone, talking about the best way forward in Iraq and Afghanistan. If they talk about it at all anymore it's just one side saying the other messed it up worse than their side did. I would be interested in hearing about what the dynamics of the situation are, what our long term goals and plans are and differing ideas about how they might be accomplished. I would like to hear that from people who aren't already decided that whatever the other guy says is not only wrong, but dangerous and stupid and almost certainly he is a subversive who is trying to undermine American security. I've had plenty of that.

Take care,


Ed

You and I are on the same page, my friend.

Moving forward is the only alternative, as moving backward is impossible. The water has passed under the bridge.

Chas

[Fast_Eddie]

I should add to the edit I made - and my point was not to bash Bush, but to point out that bashing Obama on this point is a bit hypocritical. I honestly believe both men did and/or are doing what they think best, and to be fair, there are differences in their approach, but overall we're talking about more or less the same deal.

I wonder if they don't like to have us "kids" bickering about trivial crap like "Mission Accomplished" so we don't bother them with the actual substance of the overall mission.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

I should add to the edit I made - and my point was not to bash Bush, but to point out that bashing Obama on this point is a bit hypocritical. I honestly believe both men did and/or are doing what they think best, and to be fair, there are differences in their approach, but overall we're talking about more or less the same deal.

I wonder if they don't like to have us "kids" bickering about trivial crap like "Mission Accomplished" so we don't bother them with the actual substance of the overall mission.

Divide and conquer???

I think I've read where George Bush I said, " If the American people ever figure out what we've done, they'll chase us down the streets and lynch us."

Whether he said it or not, there is an element of truth to it.

Chas

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by Charles

Divide and conquer???

I think I've read where George Bush I said, " If the American people ever figure out what we've done, they'll chase us down the streets and lynch us."

Whether he said it or not, there is an element of truth to it.

Chas

still all in all he is a likable guy

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Charles

Ed, you are 100% correct.

From what I understand, the personnel on the carrier hung the "Mission Accomplished" sign on their own. But it doesn't really matter.

What does matter is the fact that we're all in the same boat. Both Bush and Obama did, and are, doing the best that they can under difficult situations.

The situation has never been made worse by being civil and understanding...as far as I know.

Chas

While true to a degree, it's only right to hold people (Dubya) to account (historically in this instance) for grave errors in statesmanship lest we be doomed to make such stupid decisions again. Rather than accepting the "given the circumstances, I'd have done the same again" platitudes, we should, as a nation, acknowledge that we f*cked up royally in Iraq and that this f*ck-up was a result of our hubris combined with very poor intelligence.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by finnbow

hubris combined with very poor intelligence.

being elite would account for his hubris and I don't think has poor intelligence just average with no intellectual curiosity

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by noonereal

being elite would account for his hubris and I don't think has poor intelligence just average with no intellectual curiosity

Poor intelligence would be understatement in the extreme had I been referring to Dubya himself. I was actually referring to the CIA in this instance.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Poor intelligence would be understatement in the extreme had I been referring to Dubya himself. I was actually referring to the CIA in this instance.

my bad