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  #181  
Old 07-30-2016, 07:50 PM
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Tom Joad Tom Joad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-ray657 View Post
No rooting for trump is one thing. Wishing harm on a group because you opposing them politically is not a good definition of justice. I was making the point that the Hutus pretended they were imposing justice as well. I don't see you getting gratification for your grudge as justice. If you truly think that Trump is best for the country, go all out. I don't think you actually believe that. Therefore, your rooting for a Trump victory is based on hatred rather than logic. Hatred is not a good recipe for justice.

P.S. It looks like you have been campaigning for the role of lightning rod for a long time.
You are right. A good part of it is a desire for payback. However I also believe the country will be better off in the long run if Trump is elected instead of Hillary. If Hillary is elected then the notion that the Corporate Wing of the Democratic Party is going to be the standard for what passes as progressive and liberal in this country is going to be validated. That is unacceptable to me. If Trump wins the notion that the Democratic Party is too far to the right is validated. Sometimes you have to lose a battle to win the war. Sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before you can begin to climb out of a hole.
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  #182  
Old 07-30-2016, 07:54 PM
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Here are some logical reasons for supporting Hillary.

--- We will get at least one quality nominee for the Supreme Court - probably more.

---Hillary has high level experience in government and international issues, and the intelligence to make that experience useful.

--- She will be much more receptive to legislation passed by a Democratic majority in Congress, or in the converse, she will the veto power to stop the insane legislation that would be passed by any further rendition of the tea party dominated Congress.

--- She is supporting a number of progressive proposals. Whether one considers it lukewarm support or not, it is better than a threatened veto.

--- The rest of the world will not consider her a circus act. Much of the world is used to dealing with female leader.

--- Bernie has no chance of being elected. She does. And, gulp, so does Trump.

--- She has a husband that knows a thing or two about politics. Besides her husband, she is familiar with a number of highly knowledgeable and capable candidates for service in a Democratic administration.

--- Trump has none of the qualities that would serve him well in office.
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  #183  
Old 07-30-2016, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Joad View Post
You are right. A good part of it is a desire for payback. However I also believe the country will be better off in the long run if Trump is elected instead of Hillary. If Hillary is elected then the notion that the Corporate Wing of the Democratic Party is going to be the standard for what passes as progressive and liberal in this country is going to be validated. That is unacceptable to me. If Trump wins the notion that the Democratic Party is too far to the right is validated. Sometimes you have to lose a battle to win the war. Sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before you can begin to climb out of a hole.
The Trump cure is much worse than the disease.
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  #184  
Old 07-30-2016, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by d-ray657 View Post
The Trump cure is much worse than the disease.
That's your opinion, it ain't mine.

I've been watching the Democratic Party move farther and farther to the right for the past 40 years. Not on social issues but on kitchen table ones.

And every time an election rolls around the only reason they can give me to vote for them is "we're not as bad as the Republicans". But this time Bernie Sanders changed all that. He showed us what a Democrat is supposed to be.

No more fake Democrats for me. I want to see the Democratic Party as it stands today to go down in flames so that a new movement, one that represents regular people can Rise Like a Phoenix from the ashes.
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  #185  
Old 07-30-2016, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Joad View Post
That's your opinion, it ain't mine.

I've been watching the Democratic Party move farther and farther to the right for the past 40 years. Not on social issues but on kitchen table ones.

And every time an election rolls around the only reason they can give me to vote for them is "we're not as bad as the Republicans". But this time Bernie Sanders changed all that. He showed us what a Democrat is supposed to be.

No more fake Democrats for me. I want to see the Democratic Party as it stands today to go down in flames so that a new movement, one that represents regular people can Rise Like a Phoenix from the ashes.
Your argument thou a valid one. In the Dems have been forced to tack to the Right. This maybe due in part to the low Democratic turnout in the off years. Because of this they now longer have the strength to push a strong Left agenda. Forced to the center right in order to have some say at all. The Dems need to get the vote out in every election!

Like Senator Sanders stated recently this movement will take time, starting at the local level. Electing city council on up like minded officials. A base of leaders to build upon. No time to give up.

The Right gets the vote out! Every time!

No time to dilute the vote, not this year given there are only two real options. A protest vote may make you feel good for one day. Where a Trump in the Oval would be four years of unpleasantness uncertainty upheaval and constant anger on any with left leaning hopes.



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  #186  
Old 07-31-2016, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Oerets View Post
Your argument thou a valid one. In the Dems have been forced to tack to the Right. This maybe due in part to the low Democratic turnout in the off years. Because of this they now longer have the strength to push a strong Left agenda. Forced to the center right in order to have some say at all. The Dems need to get the vote out in every election!
The Democrats abandoned the working class, not vice versa.
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  #187  
Old 07-31-2016, 07:58 AM
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Oerets Oerets is online now
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Originally Posted by Tom Joad View Post
The Democrats abandoned the working class, not vice versa.
What needs to also be mentioned in the working class abandoning the political arena. We can discuss the many reasons, but they have abandoning organized labor also. Just be a member of a union an it will become very apparent. When a monthly meeting barely meets a quorum some months. The members show little interest until a disciplinary issue. Same with the electorate, most only vote when it effects them personally.

The Right knew an angry voter votes and used it! Keeps the blood up. Where the Left have never been able to voice their argument with staying power since the 70's. Mention Guns, Taxes, Immigration, Terrorism, Abortion then mention Environment, Minimum wage, Healthcare, Affordable Housing, Outsourcing, some get the attention more then others. One would think the Environment alone would be the most pressing issue, but is not.

Piont of fact, look no further then the two conventions, day and night in presentation. One put the fear of God out and the other hope and working together. Looks like the scare tactics won out. Also the appearance of the selfish, I have mine rise. This could be due more to the wanting to hold onto what little the middle class still have. Or the hopes of someday obtaining the good life.


Barney

Last edited by Oerets; 07-31-2016 at 08:41 AM.
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