Romney Takes Credit for the Auto Bailout

[BlueStreak]

Really, Mike? FDRs actions brought about employer provided healthcare?

I thought angelic, do-gooder corporate executives went about on prancing unicorns throwing fat paychecks and expensive bennies at everyone out of love for their underlings and the goodness of their hearts?

Boy, am I disillusioned.

[whell]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

For a while. Until he (And others in the industry) realized it didn't bring the increases in productivity he expected, nor did it do much to curb interest in unionization. The plan wasn't working. Then what happened, Mike?

"....prior to Ford being unionized.", should be your first clue.

Spare us this "saintly benevolence" of employers nonsense. We're all adults here, nobody believes that fairytale. (Well, maybe some on YOUR side do.)

No, its not a clue. You're suggesting that unions are immune from the same market forces that drive business to expand their balance sheets and their market share. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Spare me the bullshit that you love to spread with an excessively large brush about corporate greed. The history of unions greed and corruption should provide you with plenty of evidence that unions are not the white knights in the history or corporate - labor relations.

[whell]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Boy, am I disillusioned.

No doubt about it.

[djv8ga]

Originally Posted by bobabode

It's the new dance. Spin-pivot-flip-flop-do see do.

Gay marriage?

[whell]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Really, Mike? FDRs actions brought about employer provided healthcare?

By the way, I knew that sentence would bug you!

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by whell

And what if the company implodes trying to sustain the unsustainable pension and employee benefit costs? Where would the employees be then?

That does not need to be the case and is only a threat here because we allow competitive foriegn industries to operate the way they do here. Scab wages, poor benefits, etc.

Some countries realize the benefits of unions and have fair labour laws. Our labour laws are a farce, such ones as we have. But then with government of the corporations, for the corporations and by the corporations what else can we expect.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by whell

No, its not a clue. You're suggesting that unions are immune from the same market forces that drive business to expand their balance sheets and their market share. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Spare me the bullshit that you love to spread with an excessively large brush about corporate greed. The history of unions greed and corruption should provide you with plenty of evidence that unions are not the white knights in the history or corporate - labor relations.

We all have our bullshit, my friend. And yours is every bit as deep and stinky as mine. I don't see "white knights" anywhere, that's your game. I recognize that people in general tend to seek to advance their own goals and ambitions. And, that those who fail to protect their interests will soon get taken advantage of and end up with the short end of the stick.

As I see it, our employers would rather we think of them as our caring benefactors. Because it puts them in the position to take what they want and do as they please whilst convincing us it's for our own good. But, is it?
Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Corporations,
Unions,
Government.

None should have the power to run amok. Ideally, they should all be kept in check, but each doing their part.

[whell]

Originally Posted by merrylander

That does not need to be the case and is only a threat here because we allow competitive foriegn industries to operate the way they do here. Scab wages, poor benefits, etc.

...and the workers are dragged their and work as slaves at gun-point...

[whell]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

We all have our bullshit, my friend. And yours is every bit as deep and stinky as mine. I don't see "white knights" anywhere, that's your game. I recognize that people in general tend to seek to advance their own goals and ambitions. And, that those who fail to protect their interests will soon get taken advantage of and end up with the short end of the stick.

As I see it, our employers would rather we think of them as our caring benefactors. Because it puts them in the position to take what they want and do as they please whilst convincing us it's for our own good. But, is it?
Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Corporations,
Unions,
Government.

None should have the power to run amok. Ideally, they should all be kept in check, but each doing their part.

Funny though how I offered a history and fact based explanation about the proliferation of employer - based health insurance that didn't rely on either the "bullshit" of "greedy corp execs" or "white - knight" unions, and you rejected it.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by whell

...and the workers are dragged their and work as slaves at gun-point...

In some instances, this is not far from the mark and you know it.

Years ago, I worked for a rug importer. My manager made frequent trips abroad to factories in Europe (Belgium and Germany), China, Turkey and India. He enjoyed going to Europe and, somewhat less so, Turkey. But, he told me the trips to India and China, "....make me sick. It's disgusting to see the way they treat their own people." China being the worst as the factory, at the time, was run by the Chinese Army.

"...slaves at gunpoint..."?

There you have it.