Polarization of America

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by whell

For Pete's sake, can't you read? All I did was post the content of post 4, which was a response not to you but to another poster.

And no, I don't agree with your conclusion about single payer. Both in 1993 - 94 and in 2009 - 2010, the Democrats could not get a consensus among Democrats that going single payer was the right course.

Which tells me that the left here is not as far left as say Canada or Denmark, or Sweden. Also getting a consensus among Democrats would even challenge St. Anthony of Padua.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by whell

Except that's not what Pew is finding.

I don't give a rat's ass what the Pew study says.

Pew can suck my dick.

I deal in reality.

We don't have universal single payer.

Union membership is at an 80 year low.

Defined benefit pensions and other employee perks are going by the boards.

Income inequality is at an all time high.

This country is turning into a right wing extremists wet dream.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by whell

Both in 1993 - 94 and in 2009 - 2010, the Democrats could not get a consensus among Democrats that going single payer was the right course.

Which proves my point.

Todays Democratic Party is a center right party.

And the Republican Party, is a far right party.

There is no left in America.

[donquixote99]

You know, I find this discussion quite off the beam, as I don't see polarization a matter of position on a 'political spectrum,' as much as it is a matter of attitude. There was a time in DC with the opposition was 'the loyal opposition,' frequently in style, often enough in reality. And I think the style can have it's influence on reality. But now we have about no 'men of goodwill,' who may differ; now we have two camps of enemies, at war.

And political position is rather irrelevant. It's oft been remarked that Obama's hated medical insurance reform is in origin a Republican plan. So polarization is not a matter of hating policy, actually. It's a matter of hating the other, of seeing them as enemies, as villains, as demons. And is spreads, for one hates those who give one hate, and that returned hate engenders wider and deeper hate in the other, and thus feedback amplification occurs and recurs.

[Rajoo]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

It's a matter of hating the other, of seeing them as enemies, as villains, as demons. And is spreads, for one hates those who give one hate, and that returned hate engenders wider and deeper hate in the other, and thus feedback amplification occurs and recurs.

Precisely why negative campaigning works most of the time. Instead of highlighting differences in policy, it is a matter of highlighting weaknesses in candidates. Swiftboats, birth certificates and concussions become the main points of debate.

Imagine radio and TV blackout during the last month of general elections.

[d-ray657]

I remember having to suffer through a president that had moved far to the right from 1980 through 88. After Reagan engineered the move to the right in national politics, he would not get through the primaries of the modern GOP -and one of the reasons would be his being friends with that liberal Speaker of the House.

Regards,

D-Ray

[Bigerik]

There is no organized left in the US. There are two parties. One is far right and one is Centre right. The US does not exist in of and by itself. And in the world where it exists as a continuously less important piece, it is beginning to look frighteningly right wing. More importantly, it is missing the boat on the way the world is going. And in a newly weak America can't afford that anymore. It is becoming the angry village idiot of the world community.

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[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Bigerik

There is no organized left in the US. There are two parties. One is far right and one is Centre right. The US does not exist in of and by itself. And in the world where it exists as a continuously less important piece, it is beginning to look frighteningly right wing. More importantly, it is missing the boat on the way the world is going. And in a newly weak America can't afford that anymore. It is becoming the angry village idiot of the world community.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

Finally, someone else who gets it!

Quoted for truth.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

You know, I find this discussion quite off the beam, as I don't see polarization a matter of position on a 'political spectrum,' as much as it is a matter of attitude. There was a time in DC with the opposition was 'the loyal opposition,' frequently in style, often enough in reality. And I think the style can have it's influence on reality. But now we have about no 'men of goodwill,' who may differ; now we have two camps of enemies, at war.

And political position is rather irrelevant. It's oft been remarked that Obama's hated medical insurance reform is in origin a Republican plan. So polarization is not a matter of hating policy, actually. It's a matter of hating the other, of seeing them as enemies, as villains, as demons. And is spreads, for one hates those who give one hate, and that returned hate engenders wider and deeper hate in the other, and thus feedback amplification occurs and recurs.

I'd have to agree with this. Looks about right to me.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Bigerik

There is no organized left in the US. There are two parties. One is far right and one is Centre right. The US does not exist in of and by itself. And in the world where it exists as a continuously less important piece, it is beginning to look frighteningly right wing. More importantly, it is missing the boat on the way the world is going. And in a newly weak America can't afford that anymore. It is becoming the angry village idiot of the world community.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

I've long had the feeling that eventually, globalization would burst the silly bubble we Americans have been living in. The notion that we are the best at everything, better than everyone else in every way, more righteous in our adventures abroad, the notion that we have some sort of "God given" right to run the world........

It's always been false. Supported by unique conditions that existed because of devastation wrought in Europe and Asia after the world wars and the ridiculous assumption that victory was Gods endorsement of our "exceptionalism" and superiority. A gigantic crock. The Grand Illusion, if you will.

I also find false and delusional the belief that America started out pure and utopian and has been backsliding ever since. In fact, if anything the reverse would be closer to reality. We started as a nation wherein human beings were bought and sold as commodities for decades after such trade had been outlawed in other nations. Huge numbers of indigenous peoples were forcibly relocated and detained on "reservations". Democracy was limited to wealthy, white, male property owners and all else were politically disenfranchised, at the mercy of these men.

We have NOT been trekking towards tyranny, were have been struggling against it for the last 240 years.

But, in the name of "freedom", some wish to turn back the hands of time?

Why, is beyond me. Perhaps it is just my perspective, based on experiences within the span of my life. But, it seems America was a slightly better place forty years ago, before the Conservative revolution started "fixing" it? We had problems, but the answer wasn't just to sit back and cheer as the boundlessly greedy abandoned our cities and eventually the nation itself, while politicians and media propagandists make the average American feel guilty for expecting a decent days pay for a days work.

Enjoy the rest of your Sunday. I'll be at work, enjoying my "freedom" to do as I'm told.

Dave