eyes wide open, right before the fall

[merrylander]

Like the Charge of the Light Brigade or the invasion of Iraq, or maybe Tora Bora?

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Combwork

Quote Bluestreak.

"Or, maybe.....just maybe.....They all tried to maintain a vast military empire, maintaining standing armies in far flung lands forcing other people to give up natural resources on the cheap?"

The Romans yes and 1000 years later the British, but one reason they fell was reaction time. Something goes wrong in a colony, it takes months to alert the capital and get instructions so the colony leader had to make his own decision as to how to deal with it.

"Things fall apart, the center does not hold" I guess some colonial leaders could think on the fly and some couldn't.

Combwork,

My point is that some of our conservative friends are so in love with maintaining our "vast miltary empire" that they would sacrifice anything to keep it. $708,000,000,000 per annum, in the last budget (Signed by Mr. Obama.) and growing. I will soon be assailed for being "anti-military". I am not, I am a proud veteran myself. I just happen to believe our military should be restructured more towards protecting our own borders and shores, and less toward trying to be "World Police". We would be safer and have the money to pay for other things, such as our massive debt.

Dave

[Charles]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Combwork,

My point is that some of our conservative friends are so in love with maintaining our "vast miltary empire" that they would sacrifice anything to keep it. $708,000,000,000 per annum, in the last budget (Signed by Mr. Obama.) and growing. I will soon be assailed for being "anti-military". I am not, I am a proud veteran myself. I just happen to believe our military should be restructured more towards protecting our own borders and shores, and less toward trying to be "World Police". We would be safer and have the money to pay for other things, such as our massive debt.

Dave

Agreed.

We're broke, we must get a handle on spending, and that includes cutting the military. The Federal budget needs to be cut across the boards. Our currency needs to be stabilized.

But I don't see that happening. Too many people at the top have a vested interest in keeping things the way they are.

I'd like to say that we need to get people back to work...but doing what? Modern methods of production are so efficient that we need fewer workers. Even with unemployment as high as it is, does anyone want for anything? May not be able to afford it, but it's there if you can.

I'm not so sure that anything can be done at this point. The ship's going down. You can pump water from one side of the bilge to the other to maintain an even keel, but we get closer to the waterline every day.

No wonder people are hot.

Chas

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Charles

Agreed.

But I don't see that happening. Too many people at the top have a vested interest in keeping things the way they are.

And at the bottom and some of us in the middle as well.

I'd like to say that we need to get people back to work...but doing what? Modern methods of production are so efficient that we need fewer workers. Even with unemployment as high as it is, does anyone want for anything? May not be able to afford it, but it's there if you can.

By government and Private sector investing together to build industry.

I'm not so sure that anything can be done at this point. The ship's going down. You can pump water from one side of the bilge to the other to maintain an even keel, but we get closer to the waterline every day.

The ship can be saved, but it probably won't. Because the answer would mean every American, one way or the other, even wealthy Americans, would have to make painful sacrifices. Something we have grown completely unaccustomed to. Remember, Walt Disneys employees worked FOR FREE until the movie "Fantasia" was released because he didn't have the money to pay them. Could you imagine something like that happening today? The workers would never do it, and the employer would never make that big of a gamble, he would just shut down. It's kinda sad, but that's how it is.

No wonder people are hot.

Fuck'em, Chas. Sometimes you have to run them hot to get them off their asses.

Chas

Regards,
Dave

[Combwork]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Combwork,

My point is that some of our conservative friends are so in love with maintaining our "vast miltary empire" that they would sacrifice anything to keep it. $708,000,000,000 per annum, in the last budget (Signed by Mr. Obama.) and growing. I will soon be assailed for being "anti-military". I am not, I am a proud veteran myself. I just happen to believe our military should be restructured more towards protecting our own borders and shores, and less toward trying to be "World Police". We would be safer and have the money to pay for other things, such as our massive debt.

Dave

Good points all, but the curious thing is that if the bulk of that money is spent within the 'States, doesn't it go round in circles? Without that level of spending, what would happen to unemployment? Having said that, just imagine what spending even a fraction of that money on research into a stable fusion reactor, or space exploration could achieve.

I know the latter is thorny; "Why send people; it's not worth the money when we can send robot probes that are almost as good?". It's the 'almost' that gets me; how can we know what's there if we don't look?

As for "World Police", with the possible exception of China the U.S.A. is the only country rich enough to do it and even then, I doubt it could do it on its own.

[merrylander]

Hate to put a damper on things, but according to this morning's paper;

Greece has a deficit at 15% of GDP with no prospects of growth.

We have a deficit of 10% of GDP projected to fall to 5% in four years and we do have growth . Even the Chinese have resumed buying treasuries as are several other countries looking for a safe place for their money.

Go figure.

[finnbow]

We have a deficit of 10% of GDP projected to fall to 5% in four years and we do have growth . Even the Chinese have resumed buying treasuries as are several other countries looking for a safe place for their money.

Go figure.

I guess as bad as we are, everybody else is worse. The Chinese need to invest their money somewhere. I suppose buying US treasuries is better than stuffing it under the futon, as it were.

[piece-itpete]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Combwork,

My point is that some of our conservative friends are so in love with maintaining our "vast miltary empire" that they would sacrifice anything to keep it. $708,000,000,000 per annum, in the last budget (Signed by Mr. Obama.) and growing. I will soon be assailed for being "anti-military". I am not, I am a proud veteran myself. I just happen to believe our military should be restructured more towards protecting our own borders and shores, and less toward trying to be "World Police". We would be safer and have the money to pay for other things, such as our massive debt.

Dave

If you put aside the Dems false rhetoric and examine actions they're as deep as the GOP, no use singling us out.

There is a couple things many empires have in common in the end. A fixation on appearance (check), a preponderance of wealth (check), a breakdown of the family unit (check), an entrenched interest with vast land holdings (check), a widely held belief that they can freeze things or at least that nothing will change (check).

It'll be a sad day for the world when we finally end the experiment that began after ww2 and withdraw into our own borders.

Pete

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

If you put aside the Dems false rhetoric and examine actions they're as deep as the GOP, no use singling us out.

There is a couple things many empires have in common in the end. A fixation on appearance (check), a preponderance of wealth (check), a breakdown of the family unit (check), an entrenched interest with vast land holdings (check), a widely held belief that they can freeze things or at least that nothing will change (check).

It'll be a sad day for the world when we finally end the experiment that began after ww2 and withdraw into our own borders.

Pete

True. But, I would say the left would probably have less of a problem, pschologically, with a loss of empire. Telling a right winger he's no longer "number one" always seems akin to chopping his manhood off with a rusty hatchet. I'm guessing it stems from their love of competition?

Oh, and on your last sentence; It sure will. Because it will mean they'll have to defend themselves and stop sucking on Uncle Sams teet. I would think the conservative mind would be looking forward to that day?

A little irony in these points, Eh?

Dave

[Charles]

Originally Posted by finnbow

I guess as bad as we are, everybody else is worse. The Chinese need to invest their money somewhere. I suppose buying US treasuries is better than stuffing it under the futon, as it were.

Yup, we're the healthiest mule at the glue factory.

Chas