Nothing We Haven't Heard Before

[Charles]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Whatever that means.

John

I think Pete is referring to boring holes in peoples knees with an electric drill.

A favorite tactic of the IRA I once read.

Kind of gives me the willies just to think about it.

Now I could beat the piss out of someone to get some answers, or even shoot him in the head...if I thought it was necessary. It's not something I want to do, but I could, at least once or twice.

But there ain't no way I could bore holes in some poor slob with an electric drill.

Guess I'll never make a dentist, huh?

Chas

[BlueStreak]

Give me the drill, and a one inch paddle bit. I'll put holes in the knees, holes in the noggin....................

[Combwork]

Originally Posted by Boreas

But the person saying it makes this worthy of our attention.

John

There's something that has always puzzled me. After 9/11 the U.S.A. had to hit someone, but why Iraq?

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Combwork

There's something that has always puzzled me. After 9/11 the U.S.A. had to hit someone, but why Iraq?

True story.

The original code name for the invasion wasn't Operation Iraqi Freedom. It was Operation Iraqi Liberation.

The Neo-Cons who were furious with Bush Senior for not occupying Iraq after Operation Desert Storm ended up in Junior's administration.

Junior wanted to be seen as a "war president". He thought it would assure his place in history.

John

[merrylander]

One of the main instigators in going into Iraq was Wolfowitz, he had a bee in his bonnet about Saddam, and he was aided and abetted by Rumsfeld. I still can see the picture of the two of them leaving the Whitehouse with big grins, seing as how they ddid not have anyone's lives at risk. There is a special corner of hell reserved for them.

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by Boreas

True story.

The original code name for the invasion wasn't Operation Iraqi Freedom. It was Operation Iraqi Liberation.

The Neo-Cons who were furious with Bush Senior for not occupying Iraq after Operation Desert Storm ended up in Junior's administration.

Junior wanted to be seen as a "war president". He thought it would assure his place in history.

John

I had heard some of the things stated in that article, but I hadn't realized the source. It's hard to imagine such an evil cynicism about war. I wonder how early they had written the Patriot Act. Maybe we have been giving Cheney too much credit for being a puppet master.

Regards,

D-Ray

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

Maybe we have been giving Cheney too much credit for being a puppet master.

I've thought so for a long time.

John

[finnbow]

And I thought that that retarded little chimp was too big a fool for such Machiavellian behaviour. My bad.

[piece-itpete]

Originally Posted by Combwork

There's something that has always puzzled me. After 9/11 the U.S.A. had to hit someone, but why Iraq?

There is intense politics at work on this one and it's hard to see the real reasons.

The reality is that Iraq has been a problem for us for a long time. Bill and Albright recognised it and stated it clearly on more than one occasion.

After 9-11 we had a choice. We could swat the fly (Afghanistan) or go after root causes.

This is not the Isreal/Palistine thing, Osama didn't even mention it in his early releases. His big thing was infidels in the Holy Land (US troops in Saudi Arabia). He also used the economic sanctions against us, using pictures of starving babies in Iraq in his propaganda. This quote has been widely circulated in the ME:

[Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price--we think the price is worth it.

--60 Minutes (5/12/96) ]

To prudently pull out we had to neutralize Saddam. Many argue he was already. Apparently firing on us daily, paying families of suicide bombers, helping train terrorists, etc, is 'neutralized'.

Besides, screamers aside, the Clinton administration (along with most of the rest of the world) believed he was seeking WMD:

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

Note the dates on those quotes. They blame Bush.

Plus add that appearances matter in international politics, and he was mocking, not just us, but the UN and western Europe at every turn, the kind of thing that leads some folks to believe we are weak and decadent, that we have no staying power, that we won't fight back but withdraw - in short that attacking us will achieve their goals.

I wish to point out that we would not have gone in without the backroom agreement of the key US allies in the ME. They considered Saddam a real problem too.

The US has been quite sucessful in foreign policy overall (not perfectly!) since ww2. Our foreign policy is remarkably bipartisan. Witness Obamas actual actions in Iraq and Afghanistan - the baloney during the campaign is for domestic reasons (that do indeed seem to work).

We are reshaping the ME for better or worse. With Iraq seemingly becoming stable it appears for the better. Time will tell.

Pete

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

After 9-11 we had a choice. We could swat the fly (Afghanistan) or go after root causes.

And that was Iraq?

Really?

Someone better tell Shrub.

John