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  #21  
Old 05-07-2018, 02:26 PM
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whell whell is offline
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In the mean time, Dershowitz weighs in:

An experienced federal judge has confirmed what I have been arguing for months, namely, that the modus operandi of special counsel Robert Mueller is to charge associates of President Trump with any crime he can find in order to squeeze them into turning against Trump.

This is what Judge T.S. Ellis III said at a hearing Friday: “You don’t really care about Mr. Manafort’s bank fraud … What you really care about is what information Mr. Manafort could give you that would reflect on Mr. Trump or lead to his prosecution or impeachment.”


This was precisely the point Ellis was making with regard to Manafort. A similar point could be made with regard to Trump’s former national security adviser, Michael Flynn, and perhaps to his personal attorney, Michael Cohen. Indeed, Flynn pleaded guilty to a highly questionable charge precisely because his son was threatened with prosecution.

Last week was not a good one for special counsel Mueller. Nor was it particularly good for Trump, as his new lawyer Rudy Giuliani presented a somewhat garbled narrative with regard to the payments made to adult film star Stormy Daniels. But it was an excellent week for the Constitution and for all Americans, because a federal judge made it clear that no one — not even the special counsel — is above the law and beyond scrutiny by our system of checks and balances.

In summary - Mueller was charged to go find any evidence of individuals colluding with Russia to impact the 2016 election. So, go find evidence of that, and that's fine. But Mueller doesn't, in Manafort's case, get to go back fish for potential "crimes" that occurred far in advance of 2016 just to put pressure on folks to act in a way that they otherwise would not. And making such charges are not evidence of crimes.

In Flynn's case, Mueller got Flynn to plead guilty to lying to the FBI, even though no one in the FBI suggested that Flynn lied about anything. It appears that Flynn pleaded guilty to keep Mueller from going after - and potentially destroying the career and future of Flynn's son. In the process, Flynn has been bankrupted and destroyed.

Whatever the Trump's campaign may or may not have done, this is just flat out wrong.
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  #22  
Old 05-07-2018, 04:08 PM
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finnbow finnbow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell View Post
In summary - Mueller was charged to go find any evidence of individuals colluding with Russia to impact the 2016 election. So, go find evidence of that, and that's fine. But Mueller doesn't, in Manafort's case, get to go back fish for potential "crimes" that occurred far in advance of 2016 just to put pressure on folks to act in a way that they otherwise would not. And making such charges are not evidence of crimes.

In Flynn's case, Mueller got Flynn to plead guilty to lying to the FBI, even though no one in the FBI suggested that Flynn lied about anything. It appears that Flynn pleaded guilty to keep Mueller from going after - and potentially destroying the career and future of Flynn's son. In the process, Flynn has been bankrupted and destroyed.

Whatever the Trump's campaign may or may not have done, this is just flat out wrong.
This is absolutely standard operating procedure for investigating and prosecuting conspiracies by criminal enterprises like the Trump family, Mafia, Enron and drug cartels. In fact, Guiliani gained quite a reputation for doing exactly the same thing in NYC. Dershowitz, an outspoken civil libertarian, defense counsel and cable news gadfly, is adamantly opposed to any (of the perfectly legal) tactics that result in conviction of the type of criminals he normally represents.

FWIW, I bet Judge Ellis is going to let Mueller continue prosecuting Manafort.
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Last edited by finnbow; 05-07-2018 at 04:36 PM.
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  #23  
Old 05-07-2018, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by whell View Post
Whatever the Trump's campaign may or may not have done, this is just flat out wrong.
Whitewater, Ken Starr, Benghazi........................ring a bell?
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  #24  
Old 05-07-2018, 05:00 PM
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I have no legal background and no expertise on the matter, but, this is what I think...
I think the judge is making the prosecution jump this extra hurdle so that the defense is unable to come back and say the judge did not consider everything and was somehow biased.
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  #25  
Old 05-07-2018, 06:16 PM
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no one — not even the president* — is above the law and beyond scrutiny by our system of checks and balances.

Fixed that for Dershowitz. He’s become quite unhinged in his old age.
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  #26  
Old 05-07-2018, 07:30 PM
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no one — not even the president* — is above the law and beyond scrutiny by our system of checks and balances.

Fixed that for Dershowitz. He’s become quite unhinged in his old age.
Dershowitz has been getting pretty wingnutty, but nothing like Trump's other cable mouthpiece Giuliani.
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  #27  
Old 05-07-2018, 09:37 PM
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whell whell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow View Post
This is absolutely standard operating procedure for investigating and prosecuting conspiracies by criminal enterprises like the Trump family, Mafia, Enron and drug cartels. In fact, Guiliani gained quite a reputation for doing exactly the same thing in NYC. Dershowitz, an outspoken civil libertarian, defense counsel and cable news gadfly, is adamantly opposed to any (of the perfectly legal) tactics that result in conviction of the type of criminals he normally represents.

FWIW, I bet Judge Ellis is going to let Mueller continue prosecuting Manafort.
Except that in the investigation/prosecutions that you reference, there is direct and ample evidence of a crime that has been commited. The Comey/Mueller investigation is an investigation in search of a crime. Quite a big difference.
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  #28  
Old 05-07-2018, 09:42 PM
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Whitewater, Ken Starr, Benghazi........................ring a bell?
Republicons are such hypocrites and our friend Whell is typical of the breed.
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  #29  
Old 05-07-2018, 09:56 PM
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Republicons are such hypocrites and our friend Whell is typical of the breed.
Wow. The Chicklet remark bothered you that much, huh?
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  #30  
Old 05-07-2018, 10:03 PM
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whell whell is offline
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Originally Posted by Rajoo View Post
Whitewater, Ken Starr, Benghazi........................ring a bell?
Sure they do. So do theClarence Thomas hearings, the CIA (non) leak investigation....
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