A hypothetical IMF loan to the US.

[piece-itpete]

Hey, you didn't say that!



Pete

[Charles]

Of course they'll loan it to us. Float a new note, sign on the line, only thing that matters is the global bankers get their juice.

Besides, the less than stellar dollar is still backed by plutonium...at least for the time being.

Chas

[Fast_Eddie]

Yeah, I'm sorry, but we need to raise taxes. At least that's what I think. We can't just keep digging this hole and we can't cut anything that will make a significant difference.

[piece-itpete]

Didn't we just spend a tril on the porkulus package?

Pete

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Didn't we just spend a tril on the porkulus package?

Pete

The point I keep trying to make is that you have to look at it as a percentage of the whole. Sure, we can cut here and there. But it won't solve the problem. It's like saying "I can't make my car payment" and deciding the solution is to stop spending money on salt. I mean, you're spending like $6 a year on salt! How can you waste that when you can't make your car payment. At the same time you're ignoring that you live in a house you can't afford. You either have to make more money or move.

That's what we're looking at. We either need to raise taxes or stop spending so much on military, social security, medicade and medicare. Of those, military spending is the largest single hunk that can be easily adjusted. Cutting 10% out of that *would* make a difference. But we keep focusing on marginal things. Either cut it or pay for it.

Unfortunately, for a long while, we've elected people who say they'll do that, but all they do is lower taxes. They don't cut the costs. Say what you will, that's worse than tax and spend. Don't tax but still spend is going to ruin us much faster.

Take care,

Ed

[piece-itpete]

I disagree that 1 tril is salt. The 09 budget was 3.1 tril, that makes 1 32%!!

It's easy to target the military but that is the last thing to cut, our bipartisan foreign policy since ww2 shows that, I think.

Pete

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

I disagree that 1 tril is salt. The 09 budget was 3.1 tril, that makes 1 32%!!

It's easy to target the military but that is the last thing to cut, our bipartisan foreign policy since ww2 shows that, I think.

Pete

32% for one year. But I don't think we'll do it every year.

Whatever. We can argue the stimulus. But it's done. We can't use that as a solution now and it's not what got us into this mess. Moving forward we have the same expenses year in and year out. And you demonstrate my point. No on wants to cut anything. So we have to raise taxes. Simple as that. There's no two ways about it.

When Ronald Regan told people they didn't have to pay taxes (I know, that's not what he said. But that's what people heard) and showed Republicans that it was a message that would get them elected he began killing America. When it's all over and we work for the Chinese we can look back and say Ronald Regan did it.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie

When Ronald Regan told people they didn't have to pay taxes (I know, that's not what he said. But that's what people heard) and showed Republicans that it was a message that would get them elected he began killing America. When it's all over and we work for the Chinese we can look back and say Ronald Regan did it.

QFT




it is what it is

[piece-itpete]

So it's Reagan's fault :hdscrtch:

Pete

[Fast_Eddie]

Yes. Reagan, in fact, has maybe inflicted more harm on this country than any other individual in history.

He sold the idea that we could cut taxes but maintain services. It didn't work. He sold the idea that deregulation would lead to economic prosperity. We've seen that fall apart in the last couple of years. Shoot, we've seen it for a while. I guess Enron was the beginning of that. Economically, Reagan was a disaster for America and we're only now starting to pay the bill. Except we're not paying it because people *still* believe we can spend more and have lower taxes.

But that's just the beginning. Reagan built the Islamic extremist regime in Afghanistan. His argument was that it would be the death blow to the U.S.S.R. But reality is they were already doomed. Their economy didn't work and they continued to spend ever more on their military (sound familiar?) He let Pakistan get the bomb and sent weapons to Bin Laden. We're paying the bill for that now too and will be for generations.

The fact is that history will judge Reagan pretty harshly. In fact the tide is beginning to turn. The Republicans are looking to distance themselves from the Reagan legacy and find new ideas. But his influence will continue to lead their marketing campaign. His great lie about taxes will continue to get them elected and we'll dig much deeper before we all realize we were conned.

Take care,

Ed