One Hundred and Fifty Years Ago On This Day

[icenine]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Oh, I agree he's not a diety. But he's got quite a temple on the mall anyway.

He went to war because he was told it would be quickly won, while ducking it would have been difficult and probably politically ruinous. A 'police action' was what was expected; the army would march south and restore order. He had no experience to tell him how bad it could be, and the experienced guys were very confident.

The Habaes Corpus suspension was completely justified and proper under the circumstances, except the Constitution gives Congress the power to do it, not the President. But Congress ducked making it legal, preferring to leave Lincoln stuck with the onus.

Now I'm OK with criticism of Lincoln in principle, if well-founded. But most of it is trite and tainted with Southern Revisionism.

He went to war because after he was elected the South seceded because they were upset that a President opposed to the EXTENSION of slavery to the new states was in office. When the Federal government tried to resupply the base on Ft Sumter they were attacked by the South.

You sort of make it sound like Lincoln made the decision on his own. His adminstration called it The War Of The Rebellion.

I do agree with you however in your main points. All the revisionist arguments are bullshit.
Pretty soon the "slavery did not cause the war" bullshit will rear its neanderthal head.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by icenine

He went to war because after he was elected the South seceded because they were upset that a President opposed to the EXTENSION of slavery to the new states was in office. When the Federal government tried to resupply the base on Ft Sumter they were attacked by the South.

You sort of make it sound like Lincoln made the decision on his own. His adminstration called it The War Of The Rebellion.

I do agree with you however in your main points. All the revisionist arguments are bullshit.
Pretty soon the "slavery did not cause the war" bullshit will rear its neanderthal head.

Lincoln made the decision to resupply Sumter, rather than surrender it, knowing and expecting that the southerners would open fire if resupply was attempted. He saw war as necessary and practically unavoidable, and he wanted the South to fire the first shot.

Pete is correct, above: it was war or accept disunion. Lincoln, for both principled and practical reasons, could not accept disunion.

[icenine]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Lincoln made the decision to resupply Sumter, rather than surrender it, knowing and expecting that the southerners would open fire if resupply was attempted. He saw war as necessary and practically unavoidable, and he wanted the South to fire the first shot.

Pete is correct, above: it was war or accept disunion. Lincoln, for both principled and practical reasons, could not accept disunion.

As Commander in Chief you do not have a choice in re-supply matters.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by icenine

As Commander in Chief you do not have a choice in re-supply matters.

Which goes to my original point: any competent Executive would have taken the same actions that Lincoln did.

Presuming a desire to retain the Union at all costs, the only play is "all in."

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by icenine

As Commander in Chief you do not have a choice in re-supply matters.

In any case he feels warrants it, the Commander in Chief can assert control. Everybody knew that Sumter was about out of food, the commander had already advised his Southern counterparts, in response to their demands for surrender, that it would be forthcoming in a few days due to the exhaustion of victuals. Lincoln could have let the surrender happen, or attempt resupply, with the latter being viewed by the South as a hostile act. The Southerners had made it explicitly clear that they would respond with force to a resupply attempt. He chose to attempt it, and it was a personal, considered, and informed decision.

[piece-itpete]

I'll agree that the Civil War guaranteed Federal superiority, and that Lincoln was NO saint. He was a master politician for sure. Agreed too about his beliefs. He sure knew his Bible though.

He also dances awkwardly for furniture commercials every Presidents day. I think it's very unsuitable for a man in his position.

Pete

[icenine]

Chas..who gives a phuck what Mencken thought about Lincoln. Mencken was just the early 20th century version of Howard Stern who actually acheived immortality by poking fun at the hypocracies of "Progressive" 20th century America that felt it necessary to ban alcohol.

And Lincoln did not smile in the pictures for the same reason no one else did at that time....the exposures were too long in the early days of photography you could not smile or the picture would have motion in it. DUH.

Sure Lincoln was a normal politician like everyone else back then. The outcome matters Chas not the motivation. When he saw the cost of lives in the middle of the conflict he realized that slavery had to end. Whether he came to that realization on his own with diffidence or the lastest body count from Antietam shocked him into action does not really matter. Who cares.

[piece-itpete]

The timing was political cunning.

Pete

[BlueStreak]

I've already had this argument.

Dave

[icenine]

Turning Lincoln into a saint because he preserved the Union and ended slavery is certainly nothing to be critical about.

Great post Don!