Why I am a shoshalist

[icenine]

Originally Posted by JCricket

Nothing, in fact that is how it should work. My point, and I failed to make it clear, we were responsible to make it work. We were not supposed to give to another person and hope they would make it work. So giving it to a third party and then saying I did my part was not acceptable. Looking at the people in need and doing everything you can to help was our responsibility, not the government's or the churches' or anyone else's.

So are you against the government helping people with our taxes?
I mean we should use everything at our disposal.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Oerets

The government is the people! I don't trust if left up to people in general to give equally to those who have needs. Will be selective in the conception of needs. Either subconsciously or intended. By what church you go to, ethnicity, race, economic level, education level age ect......



Barney

And, that is the crux of the biscuit. Of course Republicans will send all of their donations to the wealthiest and most highly advantaged.......because they need our help. And the disadvantaged are on their own because they need to learn to lift themselves up. After all, they did it to themselves, anyways.........

Dave

[Oerets]

Originally Posted by icenine

So are you against the government helping people with our taxes?
I mean we should use everything at our disposal.

Exactly! I have no problem with my taxes helping others in need. My problem is the giving to our elected officials and contractors unchecked.



Barney

[JJIII]

Originally Posted by JCricket

Nothing, in fact that is how it should work. My point, and I failed to make it clear, we were responsible to make it work. We were not supposed to give to another person and hope they would make it work. So giving it to a third party and then saying I did my part was not acceptable. Looking at the people in need and doing everything you can to help was our responsibility, not the government's or the churches' or anyone else's.

Exactly! Think about how much more you would have in your pocket to use to help others, that you can see with your own eyes need help, rather than send it off to the government where it gets whittled down, then put into programs rife with corruption.

[icenine]

I paid a really good chunk of income taxes go to both state and the Feds last year, plus those on my house. If for some reason I had been able to keep that money for myself the last thing I would have done is donated it to charity. I am being honest. I would have spent it on own family and self.

[JCricket]

Originally Posted by icenine

So are you against the government helping people with our taxes?I mean we should use everything at our disposal.

Not at all. I just don't think the political environment will allow us to be effective in that manner. Too many people are corrupt, too many people hate the idea of helping others when they are struggling themselves(understandably), to many people trying to decide what a need is and how to meet it. I just do not see how, in our current legal system and political environment, a government could possibly fill the gap. If it could I would be all for it. I still am for it. I just do not think I can pay my taxes and then wash my hands of the responsibility of my neighbors welfare.

And I do understand, this would take a cultural shift to accomplish what I think should be. And yes I know I am dreaming and it is likely to never be a viable economic system or political system.

[JCricket]

Originally Posted by icenine

I paid a really good chunk of income taxes go to both state and the Feds last year, plus those on my house. If for some reason I had been able to keep that money for myself the last thing I would have done is donated it to charity. I am being honest. I would have spent it on own family and self.

Kudo's to you!!!!!!
Honesty will always get my respect. I do think that if the taxes were less, and the economic system wasn't one powered by greed(I work for me to have more), you would have more and you would help those in need if you saw it.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by icenine

I paid a really good chunk of income taxes go to both state and the Feds last year, plus those on my house. If for some reason I had been able to keep that money for myself the last thing I would have done is donated it to charity. I am being honest. I would have spent it on own family and self.

I gave some homeless looking Dude standing at an intersection where I had stopped a $5 Bill the other day. I'm under no illusions that it helped him any, just allayed my guilt momentarily.

That's basically what most charity giving amounts to.

An excuse to pat yourself on the back.

Like the local church having a bake sale and presenting some family with $186 to help towards their kid's $300,000 medical bills.

Big Fucken Deal.

That's why the government needs to have programs to help the unfortunate.

[icenine]

Originally Posted by JCricket

Kudo's to you!!!!!!
Honesty will always get my respect. I do think that if the taxes were less, and the economic system wasn't one powered by greed(I work for me to have more), you would have more and you would help those in need if you saw it.

No I think I would either save the money or spend it on stereos.Or gas.


Do not get me wrong charity is great...but it does not come close to the government saftey net in effectiveness. Our nation has its problems but sort of poo-pooing the ability of our government to solve problems by implying it is corrupt sounds like a bunch of malarkey to me. If Sister Mary is agreeing with you I know I am not in the wrong on this score.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by icenine

I paid a really good chunk of income taxes go to both state and the Feds last year, plus those on my house. If for some reason I had been able to keep that money for myself the last thing I would have done is donated it to charity. I am being honest. I would have spent it on own family and self.

You know, speaking for myself, I guess it does break down to a bit of a lack of self discipline. I am somewhat the same way. In fact, I used to give generously to United Way through payroll deduction, until corruption there came to light. At that, I stopped. I'm thinking that I don't mind giving, but if it's up to me to remember to write a check every week, it isn't happening....

The same goes for my retirement savings. They take it straight out of my check, I never see the money, I never have think of it.....So it gets done and thank goodness for that.

Dave