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Old 03-02-2012, 08:08 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Bill and Bill

As I was fetching myself another Sam Adams, I caught a clip of Bill Richardson being interviewed by Bill O'Reilly, apparently discussing oil prices.

BR made a statement that during the Clinton administration whenever they released the strategic reserves, they put them on the market but didn't sell them. He said that it was effective in driving down oil prices short term.

As I only watched app 30 seconds of this I probably shouldn't comment, but the ramifications of this seemed to fly over BO's head. This is based on his past performance, as I have trouble determining if BO is playing the Devils advocate or is simply clueless...especially concerning oil prices.

I suspect Harvard doesn't offer any courses in humility.

So I'll ask the question BO should have asked.

What is the upside, or downside of playing poker with the strategic reserves? There must be one.

I suppose that if we can dump them on the open market at the peak and then buy them back once the price has collapsed, this would be a great move for the treasury. 100% upside for the American people. Not to mention driving down energy prices.

Then again, if we manage to collapse the price of oil, would we not be losing revenues from the oil companies, possibly putting people out of work? I do remember being in Texas in the mid 80's when oil prices collapsed, and it was like living in a depression.

So I ask the great minds of Political Chat to enlighten us all on this subject. Especially myself, as my knowledge of the subject is peripheral at best.

And would you be so kind as to put it in a nutshell???

Chas
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  #2  
Old 03-02-2012, 08:32 PM
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d-ray657 d-ray657 is offline
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I don't have any answers, but I have a few questions.

How much more oil is being consumed now compared to what was being consumed when BR was in the Clinton administration? I would assume that there is much more being consumed, and even if the US consumption is larger in raw numbers, I'll bet that it is smaller in the proportion of total oil consumed. What I'm getting at is that it would probably require a much bigger release of oil reserves to affect international oil prices. And that would require a much bigger risk.

Then again, my assumptions could be all wet.

Regards,

D-Ray
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Old 03-02-2012, 09:10 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-ray657 View Post
I don't have any answers, but I have a few questions.

How much more oil is being consumed now compared to what was being consumed when BR was in the Clinton administration? I would assume that there is much more being consumed, and even if the US consumption is larger in raw numbers, I'll bet that it is smaller in the proportion of total oil consumed. What I'm getting at is that it would probably require a much bigger release of oil reserves to affect international oil prices. And that would require a much bigger risk.

Then again, my assumptions could be all wet.

Regards,

D-Ray
I think we're talking apples and oranges here.

My point was that Richardson was explaining that we weren't ACTUALLY selling the oil, we were manipulating the futures market.

Considering that the USA was on the top of the heap back then, the dollar was the world's reserve currency, and strong, and while not backed by gold is WAS backed by plutonium, we were the biggest player at the table.

We could buy every hand. And even is some jerkoff got lucky and won one by betting his underwear while we were mixing another drink, we could double down on the next hand and have him leaving wearing a barrel.

Seems like Shrub even crashed the price of oil by saying he was going to open up drilling in the ANWR. And he didn't even have to ante.

My question is, if we can sell high, buy low, and relieve the pressure at the pumps by playing the futures market, why don't we do it all of the time. Other than the suckers will wise up and use different tactics.

Let's talk about the downside. Can't have a winner without having a loser.

Chas
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Old 03-02-2012, 09:17 PM
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Oerets Oerets is offline
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Does this not have more to do with the oil speculators? Manipulating the market to make a profit other then supply.



Barney
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  #5  
Old 03-02-2012, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
I think we're talking apples and oranges here.

My point was that Richardson was explaining that we weren't ACTUALLY selling the oil, we were manipulating the futures market.

Considering that the USA was on the top of the heap back then, the dollar was the world's reserve currency, and strong, and while not backed by gold is WAS backed by plutonium, we were the biggest player at the table.

We could buy every hand. And even is some jerkoff got lucky and won one by betting his underwear while we were mixing another drink, we could double down on the next hand and have him leaving wearing a barrel.

Seems like Shrub even crashed the price of oil by saying he was going to open up drilling in the ANWR. And he didn't even have to ante.

My question is, if we can sell high, buy low, and relieve the pressure at the pumps by playing the futures market, why don't we do it all of the time. Other than the suckers will wise up and use different tactics.

Let's talk about the downside. Can't have a winner without having a loser.

Chas
I should just admit that I am our of my depth here. But what the Hell, that hasn't stopped me yet. I think to carry out your card game analogy, some new prospectors have come into the game carrying a bag of gold nuggets. While we might not have any less than we did before, there is enough other money at the table now to be able to call a bluff.

Regards,

D-Ray
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Old 03-02-2012, 09:54 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oerets View Post
Does this not have more to do with the oil speculators? Manipulating the market to make a profit other then supply.



Barney
I'd say you're correct, to a certain extent.

The strategic reserves don't amount to a fart in a whirlwind. And what caught my attention was Richardson's statement that we weren't actually selling anything, we were manipulating the market.

Call me naive.

I guess my point is that whenever the pols talk about opening the strategic reserves, most people think that the oil is gone, which is not the case. They're just playing the market, which not only affects your 401K, but international politics as well.

To tell the truth, I've known all along that the strategic reserves were good for maybe a couple of months, but thanks to Richardson's statement I have begun to appreciate the true nature of things.

It's a money game, I just never realized that the strategic reserves are only a part of it.

Did you?

My goal in life is to understand the nature of things. And I've just picked up on something which should have been obvious, other than the fact that I've been blinded by my own ignorance.

Chas
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Old 03-02-2012, 10:35 PM
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bobabode bobabode is offline
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Just skimming along here. Would it really be a good idea to let the village idiots
(politicians) sit in to the oil futures poker game with our money? i.e. strategic reserves being bought with our coin.
I would think that tightening up the rules of the game might be a better strategy, no more brown eyed jacks, jokers and every other fucking wild card that these con artists can dream up.
The financial markets have been proved to be way out of control, I'm thinkin' fannie mae, freddie mac and sallie mae are still fleecing and being fleeced at a record pace.
These pricks need a little market adjustment ala feet first out the goddam window. That sound might get their attention!
But what the do I know, bugtussell? I'm just another dumbass nailpounder like you.
Maybe one of these financial wizards'll drop by and educate us, when they are done whining about friggin' class warfare. We are just too ignerant and deaf to realize class warfare started with the tossing of Glass Steagle and the mantra of "deregulation is killing the job creators" WTF.
Thanks Chas, Now I need a drink and a joint!
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Old 03-02-2012, 10:38 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-ray657 View Post
I should just admit that I am our of my depth here. But what the Hell, that hasn't stopped me yet. I think to carry out your card game analogy, some new prospectors have come into the game carrying a bag of gold nuggets. While we might not have any less than we did before, there is enough other money at the table now to be able to call a bluff.

Regards,

D-Ray
Them's the kind of people you want at your table...provided you can convince them that Big Daddy Warbucks is your uncle, and he's backing your IOU.

If you can't convince then that your IOU is good, you'll be the one leaving wearing a barrel, if you leave at all.

In a way, this is about the poker game, and faith that you're good for your bet, but in a way it's not.

It's about the fed gov manipulating the oil industry via the strategic reserves, and the repercussions.

And to pursue this further, if the government can manipulate the oil market with the crummy SR, what do you think they can do to the overall market...considering the amount of funds they have tied up (pension,etc) there?

I simply asked a question, and admitted that I didn't have the answer, although in a wise ass manner.

So allow me to return to where I started ,with some clarification.

Did you realize that by releasing the strategic reserves, that no oil exchanged hands, only money in the futures? market?

And what is the upside, or downside of playing such games?

I see no reason to continue this exercise unless we address my two queries.

Then we can play a little poker!!!

Chas
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Old 03-02-2012, 10:58 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobabode View Post
Just skimming along here. Would it really be a good idea to let the village idiots
(politicians) sit in to the oil futures poker game with our money? i.e. strategic reserves being bought with our coin.
I would think that tightening up the rules of the game might be a better strategy, no more brown eyed jacks, jokers and every other fucking wild card that these con artists can dream up.
The financial markets have been proved to be way out of control, I'm thinkin' fannie mae, freddie mac and sallie mae are still fleecing and being fleeced at a record pace.
These pricks need a little market adjustment ala feet first out the goddam window. That sound might get their attention!
But what the do I know, bugtussell? I'm just another dumbass nailpounder like you.
Maybe one of these financial wizards'll drop by and educate us, when they are done whining about friggin' class warfare. We are just too ignerant and deaf to realize class warfare started with the tossing of Glass Steagle and the mantra of "deregulation is killing the job creators" WTF.
Thanks Chas, Now I need a drink and a joint!
Yew gotta joint???

Ain't seen one of them in years.

To tell the truth, I've given up of fixing THE world, but concentrating on fixing MY world. I have a certain amount of of control over that.

An although I get a case of the ass from time to time, my days of getting foaming at the mouth pissed off over the nature of things are pretty much long past.

Life's too short to be pissed off all of the time. After all, it's not what happens to you, it's how you let it effect you.

Why bother?

Chas
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  #10  
Old 03-02-2012, 11:48 PM
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bobabode bobabode is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Yew gotta joint???

Ain't seen one of them in years.

To tell the truth, I've given up of fixing THE world, but concentrating on fixing MY world. I have a certain amount of of control over that.

An although I get a case of the ass from time to time, my days of getting foaming at the mouth pissed off over the nature of things are pretty much long past.

Life's too short to be pissed off all of the time. After all, it's not what happens to you, it's how you let it effect you.

Why bother?

Chas
Aww, just blowin' off steam. Pissed off at myself, really, just got home from work. Whacked my left thumb with a dinky finish hammer hard enough to need a drink an' a dube, at least it isn't throbbing any more. Think I'll watch Bill Mahr diddle the news while I fix the ol' gal some dinner.
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