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  #51  
Old 10-20-2014, 08:00 PM
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WTF Dave, no one above came within a parsec of saying what you're claiming.

If slavery did not exist in the South there wouldn't have been a Civil War. However in 1861 the Union armies were fighting to restore the sacred Union. By the 1864 election these armies were fighting to restore the union and end slavery.
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Last edited by nailer; 10-20-2014 at 08:02 PM.
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  #52  
Old 10-20-2014, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nailer View Post
WTF Dave, no one above came within a parsec of saying what you're claiming.

If slavery did not exist in the South there wouldn't have been a Civil War. However in 1861 the Union armies were fighting to restore the sacred Union. By the 1864 election these armies were fighting to restore the union and end slavery.
Ummm, you seem to be ignoring 'Bleeding Kansas' and several factors such as the 'Missouri Compromise' leading up to the actual firing on Ft. Sumpter.
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  #53  
Old 10-20-2014, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by bobabode View Post
Ummm, you seem to be ignoring 'Bleeding Kansas' and several factors such as the 'Missouri Compromise' leading up to the actual firing on Ft. Sumpter.
One can't mention everything at once.

I take it you think there's something relating to Kansas and Missouri that is inconsistent with the broad conclusions nailer mentioned? Please expand if so.
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  #54  
Old 10-20-2014, 09:54 PM
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Well Bob, if slavery didn't exist there would've been no need for the Missouri Compromise or a reason to spill blood in Kansas.

Only dyed-in-the-wool states' rights idiots argue that the root cause of the Civil War wasn't slavery.
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Last edited by nailer; 10-20-2014 at 09:57 PM.
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  #55  
Old 10-20-2014, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by donquixote99 View Post
One can't mention everything at once.

I take it you think there's something relating to Kansas and Missouri that is inconsistent with the broad conclusions nailer mentioned? Please expand if so.
The Emancipation Proclomation would fit nicely between the spring of 1861 and the fall of 1864.
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  #56  
Old 10-20-2014, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by nailer View Post
The Emancipation Proclomation would fit nicely between the spring of 1861 and the fall of 1864.
Yes. The Gettysburg Address also follows in that interval....
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  #57  
Old 10-21-2014, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nailer View Post
WTF Dave, no one above came within a parsec of saying what you're claiming.

If slavery did not exist in the South there wouldn't have been a Civil War. However in 1861 the Union armies were fighting to restore the sacred Union. By the 1864 election these armies were fighting to restore the union and end slavery.
What exactly was it that the Union was splitting over? Was it just a fucking lovers spat? No. Abolition had been brewing and gaining traction for quite some time and the polite, genteel assholes of the south knew it. Ever read the Confederate Constitution?

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_csa.asp

Section 9 (4); "No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed."

Article IV (3); "No slave or other person held to service or labor in any State or Territory of the Confederate States, under the laws thereof, escaping or lawfully carried into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor; but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such slave belongs,. or to whom such service or labor may be due."

It seems protecting the "property rights" of slave owners was something of a priority. Actually, reading through this document it appears that that is one of the few distinctions between it and the U.S. Constitutions.

The proper and gentlemanly bastards wanted to preserve slavery....Going INTO the war in 1860.
Because this was the underlying reason for the split in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobabode View Post
Ummm, you seem to be ignoring 'Bleeding Kansas' and several factors such as the 'Missouri Compromise' leading up to the actual firing on Ft. Sumpter.
No shit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nailer View Post
Well Bob, if slavery didn't exist there would've been no need for the Missouri Compromise or a reason to spill blood in Kansas.

Only dyed-in-the-wool states' rights idiots argue that the root cause of the Civil War wasn't slavery.
That's right. Kind of like the states' rights idiots we hear bleating their bullshit today. The "freedom" they want is the freedom to be tyrants and nothing more.

I say they shouldn't have it. But that's me, I'm crazy that way.

Dave
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Last edited by BlueStreak; 10-21-2014 at 07:55 AM.
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  #58  
Old 10-21-2014, 09:29 AM
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I believe this continues to be argued all these years later because Lincoln was forced to walk a very fine line whenever he was pressed on the issue of emancipation. Lincoln's legacy took a lot of grief...particularly from certain historians, in particular, Barbara J. Fields, regarding his sitting on the fence for so long regarding emancipation. It's easy to spew these somewhat harsh criticisms. However, had Lincoln declared for emancipation too soon, there's a real possibility that the loss of support would have caused a loss of the war...which almost happened anyway. And who knows how long slavery would have continued in the south had the Union withdrawn from the war and the secession was successful. Reckon how Fields would be looking at history if it had gone in that direction. Probably pissed off at Lincoln anyway.
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  #59  
Old 10-21-2014, 09:55 AM
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Honest Abe would be amused by the mythical giant he has become.
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  #60  
Old 10-21-2014, 01:52 PM
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[EDIT: Missed a whole page d'oh]

For the record, I lean states rights AS DESIGNED, and absolutely agree slavery was the basis of the war.

Slavery killed the experiment by forcing the change to federal domination outside their designated areas. Which would probably have happened eventually anyway, given the nature of government.

Pete
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