When does it stop?

[kretinus]

Originally Posted by noonereal

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...,7759867.story

Obie put the troops first.

The problem with this is that the "photos" aren't the problem, the problem is what the photos show, and hiding the photos doesn't hide the truth of what happened, in fact one could easily argue that Obama is now going against his word to have a more open government, which will simply discredit him furhter and the main issue will not be resolved and it will come back to haunt us.

History is full of mistakes this country has made and refused to admit, it is also full of cases where we half heartedly admitted the mistake and then tried to white wash it, the problem is that doesn't absolve of us our collective guilt and I believe we are now just starting to see what the penalty for our sins will be.

Personally I think it is the duty of every citizen in this country to demand to be told what is being done in our name, because we all pay the price for the shadow games and crimes that have been ciommited in our name.

I respect your sevice to this country Rich, I would also point out that there are quite a few veterans who have served with honor and distinction who take issue with your view but it's refreshing to see you express it without calling everyone who disagrees with you an asshat.

[kretinus]

Originally Posted by Independent

Hell yeah!

Rush Limbaugh for President!!!







Indy

Why not, we'd just be adding to the long line of lying hypocrites who have sat in the big comfy chair.

I wish Powell would challenge him to a cage match though, I have a big problem with fat pompous asses making money spreading hatred and slamming someone who has served this country with honor and distinction when that fat ass hasn't done a damn thing he wasn't sure served himself first and foremost.

[merrylander]

Bad things are done in wartime, as the bumper sticker says excrement occurs. Go back to WW I, the war to end all wars, and poison gas. Go back to WW II and Coventry, Dresden and V1 and V2 bombs. Wars are mostly started by old men and fought by young men, it is the sole remaining obscenity we have.

[Brett A]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Wars are mostly started by old men and fought by young men, it is the sole remaining obscenity we have.

This is true. War is outdated; Antiquated thinking. It's a throwback to a time when the world seemed big enough to believe we could do something "over there" and not have it affect us "over here". I've got news. There is no "over there" anymore. It's all right here.

It seems, as a species, we are literally retarded in our development when it comes to war. Truth is, it takes a lot more intellegence, courage and bravery to get along with cultures who have different world-views than it it does to kill them. To choose creative solutions over destructive ones takes a lot of work and is rarely simple, easy, or free of compromise.

But I'm not fooling myself. We're never gong to get there. At least not without a big die-off. As George Carlin said in his most-excellent "Jammin' New York" show; "Pack your shit folks, we're goin' away"

My $0.02

[Twodogs]

Didn't mean to troll fellas, I just had my neck hair all up. As far as torturing some towel headed motherf@cker bent on killing American women, children, and old people, I'm all for it. Hell, they crack like little girls from such scary things as getting water poured up their noses, and caterpillars in their cells. I guess I just have my own reasons for hating them, that's all. I guess the America I'm talking about people hating, is the old one. The one that dropped atomic bombs on a people, to save her own sons. I guess I'm just old and set in my ways, and those ways are near about gone. The hell of it though, is I never noticed the changes. I never thought of myself as a right wing radical, but I guess that maybe I am. I sure don't know when that happened. Ha, on second thought, maybe it was the "tea party" thing after all.

I really wasn't trying to troll, but just throw a thread out to see who was who around here and get to know some folks.

[Twodogs]

Originally Posted by Brett A

This is true. War is outdated; Antiquated thinking. It's a throwback to a time when the world seemed big enough to believe we could do something "over there" and not have it affect us "over here". I've got news. There is no "over there" anymore. It's all right here.

It seems, as a species, we are literally retarded in our development when it comes to war. Truth is, it takes a lot more intellegence, courage and bravery to get along with cultures who have different world-views than it it does to kill them. To choose creative solutions over destructive ones takes a lot of work and is rarely simple, easy, or free of compromise.

But I'm not fooling myself. We're never gong to get there. At least not without a big die-off. As George Carlin said in his most-excellent "Jammin' New York" show; "Pack your shit folks, we're goin' away"

My $0.02

I can agree with most of this, but what do you do when a Foreign "people" come to our shores and start killing? I know America isn't innocent in everything, but I don't think it's always our fault either. When is the last time an American flew a loaded passenger jet through a building full of innocent people just going to work (say, in the name of Christianity) in any foreign land? If water-boarding people that would do these things, has helped in any small way to keep America safe, I say thank you to George Bush, and all involved. I ask again, what good will bringing this all up "now" do anyone?

[142EBC]

Originally Posted by Brett A

...It seems, as a species, we are literally retarded in our development when it comes to war. Truth is, it takes a lot more intellegence (SIC?), courage and bravery to get along with cultures who have different world-views than it it does to kill them. To choose creative solutions over destructive ones takes a lot of work and is rarely simple, easy, or free of compromise....

Sounds good, tell that to the Jihadis though. I do believe this country has enough checks and balances, left and right, warmongers and peaceniks to keep us from pulling some rash move like arbitrarily killing several thousand innocent civilians. I spent a year in the sand-box and I know that losers that do stupid stuff to civilians and detainees alike are the exception, not the rule. I also know that I had the responsibility to keep my Soldiers alive; if an insurgent definitely had information about an IED planted for my troops and I didn't do everything I could to get it out of him or her, for the sake of ideals, the parents/children/spouses/family/friends/etc. would deserve a shot at me for not doing my job. I believe EITs (PC for torture) should be used as a last resort, and only used if there is no doubt the information is there to be obtained. Our guys live, their guys live.
Those that want to release photos of EITs and those that abhor EITs, spend a few nights on the road around Baghdad; be there when the photos are released... step up to the plate!
After the war, there might be a productive use for publishing these photos; right now the only use for these photos is to incite violence against Americans.
War is not pretty, war is not fair. War is not sanitary, War sucks. And BTW, we TOOK the first punch. We had more objectives than WMDs when we went into Iraq.
If you think you have all the answers, look at the things the new President has stuck with that were going to be changed once he got in office. I think, to his credit, he saw things from a new perspective once he was privy to more info and decided the info he was basing his proposed ideas/changes upon was incomplete.
Just my 3 cents' worth.
Mike

[soundhound]

the difference between americans and terrorists is that they are willing to resort to immoral tactics and we, supposedly, are not. while anger may leave us inclined to use torture, if we do, we become no better than they are.

[simi]

Originally Posted by soundhound

the difference between americans and terrorists is that they are willing to resort to immoral tactics and we, supposedly, are not. while anger may leave us inclined to use torture, if we do, we become no better than they are.

I believe we are able to fight with those immoral standards too.. the only problem is, we do it in this country to our own people...

[SOAPBOX]
Any more it just seems all everyone wants to do is war with each other, and make each other take up our beliefs...

I'm not a religious person, but any more.. it does seem like the meek are ruling my life, and the lives of others that try to stand up and say something in a little bit different way...

[/SOAPBOX]

[merrylander]

I am in a difficult position, as a naturalized citizen I swore to honour and defend the Constitution and I do not give my word lightly. I do not subscribe to torture and we are a signatory to the Geneva Convention. I realize that various administrations have thrown the 4th and 6th Ammendments in the trash, what with no-knock warrents and wire taps, but I have spoken out against that many times and will continue to do so.

On the other hand I was not joking in another thread about use of the Cobalt bomb. I do not see any 'innocents' amongst those savages, the women become suicide bombers, and the children will grow up to be no different than their parents. Even among themselves they show hatred, Shia have hated Sunni for 700 years, that is all their 'religion' teaches -hate.

Some argue that this is not what the Q'uran teaches but where were their voices when they hung a young woman because she was raped. Where were the voices on 9/11, Hamas was dancing in the streets.

Sorry, but they are capable of any vile act and the world would be a better place without them.