Roe V Wade history?

[RickeyM]

The Religious Reich see abortion as a holy abomination and getting it banned will get them a free pass through the Holy Gates. They care about the fetus right up until it's born. The Rethuglicans see supporting the banning of abortions as a way to harness the voting power of the so-called holy Christians. Never mind when the majority of Americans are in favor of allowing abortions to those who want them, the Repubs don't give a rat's ass about the wishes of the majority or majority rule.

Your body your choice as long as it's what we want you to choose.

[whell]

Originally Posted by RickeyM

The Religious Reich see abortion as a holy abomination and getting it banned will get them a free pass through the Holy Gates. They care about the fetus right up until it's born. The Rethuglicans see supporting the banning of abortions as a way to harness the voting power of the so-called holy Christians. Never mind when the majority of Americans are in favor of allowing abortions to those who want them, the Repubs don't give a rat's ass about the wishes of the majority or majority rule.

Your body your choice as long as it's what we want you to choose.

1) I think you'll find that the public's opinions on abortion really haven't changed that much over time. Gallup has been tracking the polling on this for decades. According to their data, as I read it, the most notable migration of opinion is from those who think abortion shouldn't be allowed at all to those who think abortion should be allowed only in limited circumstances. In other words, based on Gallups decades of tracking, most folks still don't think abortion on demand is OK.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

2) It's interesting to me that this topic is in the "Religion and Politics" subforum. It's easy to blame the "religious right" for the public sentiment regarding abortion. But, again referencing the Gallup data, that would suggest that the approx 70% of folks who believe abortion should not be legal, or only legal under limited circumstances, are Bible thumpers. I don't think that's true either.

3) "They care about the fetus up until its born" is another example of a narrative that doesn't reflect the facts. There are scores of charitable organizations out there - some aligned with faith-based organizations and some not - that support single mothers and single-parent families, both during and after delivery.

Both sides in this argument tend to talk in absolutes. The reality, like the Gallup poll that indicates that most folks favor abortion in limited circumstances, suggests that agreement and public sentiment can be found somewhere in between the two poles.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by whell

1) I think you'll find that the public's opinions on abortion really haven't changed that much over time. Gallup has been tracking the polling on this for decades. According to their data, as I read it, the most notable migration of opinion is from those who think abortion shouldn't be allowed at all to those who think abortion should be allowed only in limited circumstances. In other words, based on Gallups decades of tracking, most folks still don't think abortion on demand is OK.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

2) It's interesting to me that this topic is in the "Religion and Politics" subforum. It's easy to blame the "religious right" for the public sentiment regarding abortion. But, again referencing the Gallup data, that would suggest that the approx 70% of folks who believe abortion should not be legal, or only legal under limited circumstances, are Bible thumpers. I don't think that's true either.

3) "They care about the fetus up until its born" is another example of a narrative that doesn't reflect the facts. There are scores of charitable organizations out there - some aligned with faith-based organizations and some not - that support single mothers and single-parent families, both during and after delivery.

Both sides in this argument tend to talk in absolutes. The reality, like the Gallup poll that indicates that most folks favor abortion in limited circumstances, suggests that agreement and public sentiment can be found somewhere in between the two poles.

All bullshit. Every word of it. A Conservatve never does ANYTHING unless it benefits him personally and maybe his immediate family, if they're lucky. It's NEVER about anyone else, including God and fetuses. Give it a rest.

[Not Insane]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

All bullshit. Every word of it. A Conservatve never does ANYTHING unless it benefits him personally and maybe his immediate family, if they're lucky. It's NEVER about anyone else, including God and fetuses. Give it a rest.

Demonizing those that disagree with you is not the high road, sir.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

All bullshit. Every word of it. A Conservatve never does ANYTHING unless it benefits him personally and maybe his immediate family, if they're lucky. It's NEVER about anyone else, including God and fetuses. Give it a rest.

You're confusing conservative with libertarian. They are fellow-travellers, but different. Conservatives are the God and Country people, so they will do things for God and Country. Libertarians are the radical individualists, deluded like housecats into thinking they are like gods, understanding nothing of the community that sustains them. But they and conservatives have common interest in fighting liberal proposals to take care of the public welfare. For conservatives, it's because 'the public' includes lots of people they don't like; for libertarians, it's because the public includes people besides themselves.

This discussion applies as the subjects are motivated by ideology; the professional politicians of course are apt to be faking it for votes.

[Not Insane]

Originally Posted by whell

1) I think you'll find that the public's opinions on abortion really haven't changed that much over time. Gallup has been tracking the polling on this for decades. According to their data, as I read it, the most notable migration of opinion is from those who think abortion shouldn't be allowed at all to those who think abortion should be allowed only in limited circumstances. In other words, based on Gallups decades of tracking, most folks still don't think abortion on demand is OK.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

2) It's interesting to me that this topic is in the "Religion and Politics" subforum. It's easy to blame the "religious right" for the public sentiment regarding abortion. But, again referencing the Gallup data, that would suggest that the approx 70% of folks who believe abortion should not be legal, or only legal under limited circumstances, are Bible thumpers. I don't think that's true either.

3) "They care about the fetus up until its born" is another example of a narrative that doesn't reflect the facts. There are scores of charitable organizations out there - some aligned with faith-based organizations and some not - that support single mothers and single-parent families, both during and after delivery.

Both sides in this argument tend to talk in absolutes. The reality, like the Gallup poll that indicates that most folks favor abortion in limited circumstances, suggests that agreement and public sentiment can be found somewhere in between the two poles.

That is very well said sir, and I think you've hit the issue right between the eyes.

I'll add one thing here: This decision is not about whether abortion should be legal or not. It's about what the constitution says and what rights can be claimed to be implied. And the argument is pretty strong that the "right" to an abortion on demand is not a protected right and should be left up to the individual states. That's what the actual leaked decision argues - and quite convincingly.

I'm not sure a lot of people even want to read the details in the leaked draft.

[Chicks]

Originally Posted by whell

1) I think you'll find that the public's opinions on abortion really haven't changed that much over time. Gallup has been tracking the polling on this for decades. According to their data, as I read it, the most notable migration of opinion is from those who think abortion shouldn't be allowed at all to those who think abortion should be allowed only in limited circumstances. In other words, based on Gallups decades of tracking, most folks still don't think abortion on demand is OK.

Let's look at the polls factually, without a raging conservative's blatant bias, shall we?

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/07/10972...contort-their-

The draft opinion — which can still change — showed that conservative justices at the Supreme Court support outright overturning Roe.

That is an unpopular position with most Americans, who support abortion rights with some restrictions. Here's what recent surveys said:

CNN/SSRS: 66% said they do not support overturning Roe, while 34% did.

The Pew Research Center: Just 8% said abortion should be illegal in all cases, no exceptions. Broadening it out, roughly 37% said it should be illegal in most or all cases. But even among that group, there are sizable portions that said it should be legal in if the pregnancy threatens the life or health of the mother (46%) or if it is the result of a rape (36%).

Monmouth University: Just 11% said abortion should always be illegal. Another quarter said it should be illegal with exceptions for rape, incest or to save the life of the mother.

YouGov: 24% said Roe should be overturned, while 55% said it should not.

Fox News: 27% said it should be overturned; 63% said no.

ABC News/Washington Post: 28% said Roe should be overturned, 54% said it should be upheld. (Just 16% said abortion should be illegal in all circumstances.)

Gallup: 19% said abortion should be illegal in all circumstances; 48% said it should be legal only under certain circumstances; 32% said it should be legal in all circumstances. And 47% said abortion is morally acceptable, the highest ever recorded in two decades of Gallup asking the question. (46% said it is not morally acceptable.)

So, doing some simple math (which conservatives are apparently incapable of): 48+32=80% are in favor of abortion with some or no restrictions. That's what the Gallup poll actually says.