Roe V Wade history?

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by whell

1) I think you'll find that the public's opinions on abortion really haven't changed that much over time. Gallup has been tracking the polling on this for decades. According to their data, as I read it, the most notable migration of opinion is from those who think abortion shouldn't be allowed at all to those who think abortion should be allowed only in limited circumstances. In other words, based on Gallups decades of tracking, most folks still don't think abortion on demand is OK.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

2) It's interesting to me that this topic is in the "Religion and Politics" subforum. It's easy to blame the "religious right" for the public sentiment regarding abortion. But, again referencing the Gallup data, that would suggest that the approx 70% of folks who believe abortion should not be legal, or only legal under limited circumstances, are Bible thumpers. I don't think that's true either.

3) "They care about the fetus up until its born" is another example of a narrative that doesn't reflect the facts. There are scores of charitable organizations out there - some aligned with faith-based organizations and some not - that support single mothers and single-parent families, both during and after delivery.

Both sides in this argument tend to talk in absolutes. The reality, like the Gallup poll that indicates that most folks favor abortion in limited circumstances, suggests that agreement and public sentiment can be found somewhere in between the two poles.

All bullshit. Every word of it. A Conservatve never does ANYTHING unless it benefits him personally and maybe his immediate family, if they're lucky. It's NEVER about anyone else, including God and fetuses. Give it a rest.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by barbara

Bluestreak, its not just the unwanted babies who will suffer, but, also the women who resort to dangerous alternatives. Remember the coat hanger from years past? And, then, I suspect the medical procedure known as a D&C will once again become popular as a way to "correct one's monthly period".

And, the same people who say the government can't tell them what to do with their bodies when it comes to vaccines are the same ones who support the government telling us what we can and can not do with our bodies when it comes to abortion. Go figure.

That is absolutely and tragically correct.

[Chicks]

Alito's Draft Opinion That Would Overturn Roe Is a Disaster of Legal Reasoning

https://reason.com/2022/05/04/alitos...gal-reasoning/

The Libertarians are correct about this one. Alito and the other ultra-right justices are doing what the oligarchs installed them to do, but very clumsily.

[Not Insane]

Originally Posted by bobabode

Obviously, you didn't read the link I posted up. Typical...

I got that from the link, actually. From the article: "The issue of Time, with an article titled “The Sexes: Abortion on Demand,” appeared on newsstands hours before the decision was announced by Justice Harry Blackmun."

The final decision was announced hours before Blackman himself announced it. It was not a "draft" decision. It was a final decision. And that was actually due to a fluke. "Hammond confided in an acquaintance he knew from the University of Texas School of Law that the Roe ruling was forthcoming. The acquaintance, a Time staff reporter named David Beckwith, was given the information “on background” and was supposed to write about it only once the opinion came down from the court. A slight delay in the ruling, however, resulted in an article that appeared in the issue of the magazine that hit newsstands a few hours before the opinion was read on Jan. 22, 1973."

[Not Insane]

This guy does give an excellent rundown on why this almost certainly is the decision, and a good and absurdly well supported one too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpvU33r92Fc

The comments are funny too.🤣

[Not Insane]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

All bullshit. Every word of it. A Conservatve never does ANYTHING unless it benefits him personally and maybe his immediate family, if they're lucky. It's NEVER about anyone else, including God and fetuses. Give it a rest.

Demonizing those that disagree with you is not the high road, sir.

[Pio1980]

I expect this is a major reason the 'Pubs tolerated the despicable repugnant Mag-a-Lardo troll and his magamob cult followers.
I didn't appreciate what patriotism meant until 2016 demonstrated what it was not.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

All bullshit. Every word of it. A Conservatve never does ANYTHING unless it benefits him personally and maybe his immediate family, if they're lucky. It's NEVER about anyone else, including God and fetuses. Give it a rest.

You're confusing conservative with libertarian. They are fellow-travellers, but different. Conservatives are the God and Country people, so they will do things for God and Country. Libertarians are the radical individualists, deluded like housecats into thinking they are like gods, understanding nothing of the community that sustains them. But they and conservatives have common interest in fighting liberal proposals to take care of the public welfare. For conservatives, it's because 'the public' includes lots of people they don't like; for libertarians, it's because the public includes people besides themselves.

This discussion applies as the subjects are motivated by ideology; the professional politicians of course are apt to be faking it for votes.

[Not Insane]

Originally Posted by whell

1) I think you'll find that the public's opinions on abortion really haven't changed that much over time. Gallup has been tracking the polling on this for decades. According to their data, as I read it, the most notable migration of opinion is from those who think abortion shouldn't be allowed at all to those who think abortion should be allowed only in limited circumstances. In other words, based on Gallups decades of tracking, most folks still don't think abortion on demand is OK.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

2) It's interesting to me that this topic is in the "Religion and Politics" subforum. It's easy to blame the "religious right" for the public sentiment regarding abortion. But, again referencing the Gallup data, that would suggest that the approx 70% of folks who believe abortion should not be legal, or only legal under limited circumstances, are Bible thumpers. I don't think that's true either.

3) "They care about the fetus up until its born" is another example of a narrative that doesn't reflect the facts. There are scores of charitable organizations out there - some aligned with faith-based organizations and some not - that support single mothers and single-parent families, both during and after delivery.

Both sides in this argument tend to talk in absolutes. The reality, like the Gallup poll that indicates that most folks favor abortion in limited circumstances, suggests that agreement and public sentiment can be found somewhere in between the two poles.

That is very well said sir, and I think you've hit the issue right between the eyes.

I'll add one thing here: This decision is not about whether abortion should be legal or not. It's about what the constitution says and what rights can be claimed to be implied. And the argument is pretty strong that the "right" to an abortion on demand is not a protected right and should be left up to the individual states. That's what the actual leaked decision argues - and quite convincingly.

I'm not sure a lot of people even want to read the details in the leaked draft.

[Oerets]

At the writing of the Constitution abortions were preformed routinely up to the "Quickening".


""Quickening is when a pregnant person starts to feel their baby's movement in their uterus (womb). It feels like flutters, bubbles or tiny pulses. Quickening happens around 16 to 20 weeks in pregnancy, but some people may feel it sooner or later.""

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10297561/

""During the colonial period, the legality of abortion varied from colony to colony and reflected the attitude of the European country which controlled the specific colony. In the British colonies abortions were legal if they were performed prior to quickening. ""


So why would they think it need to be clarified any further?