Veitnam and teh TET offensive

[Pio1980]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

The French were the colonial masters in Viet Nam. There was a rebellion against them led by the Vietnamese communists. The Vietnamese against all odds and with true grit surrounded a French major strong point Dien Bien Phu and forced them to surrender. This was a major humiliation for a western power.

The Americans were pissed, especially the American Secretary of State Foster
Dulles. He believed in the domino theory: that if Viet Nam went communist the rest of neighboring countries would fall.

That is how the Americans got sucked in. They believe that they could do much better than the French and misread the historical anti foreigner nature of the Vietnamese people.

Do research on
Dien Bien Phu

and John Foster Dulles: He was a very powerful Secretary of State, a staunch anti communists and so was determine to replace the French.

For some reason this topical throwback came to mind, must be my age.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgTN13_bfXQ

[one1]

Originally Posted by JCricket

Lots of EXCELLENT tips and info here. Obviously going to take me some time, but I will give a good look at all of this.

Any opinions on Ho Chi Min? I think he was the guy in the north that started the communist movement in "Indo-China" at the time.

I thought I read he was kind of brutal.

Ho Chii Minh Wanted a Unified Vietnam,the reason the whole thing got to were it was,French Had made it a colony,Minh wanted forieners out simple just like every other incursion by modern Powers.Humble beginings blown into a majar war.I dont think Colonazation is done any moreexcept by America.

[one1]

There is volumes of Information Just take with a grain of salt,pick through the propaganda both sides have spun over time.

[Pio1980]

The historical purpose of colonization seems to have been for the appropriation of resources to benefit primarily the colonizing nation. Once the natives figure out that their stuff is going away and they aren't getting much other than oppression out of the deal, things go very sour.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[one1]

I have never known Colonies to benefit from the Colonizers.YietNam Was the last test ofthat Idealogy of priniples,America In its generrousity just wanted to set up a Proper goverment for the South vietmese People,WINK<WINK>

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

I was in Vietnam later.

From Aug. 1970-Aug 1971.

But as an REMF medic with two stripes on my arm I didn't have a clue what the fuck was going on.

Honesty. I like that.

[donquixote99]

Sometimes decisions are made for illogical reasons, eg, Dulles taking up the White Man's Burden after the French dropped it. Sometimes they are made for face-saving reasons, at each juncture where it was either escalate or admit the whole thing was a bad show, the Presidents and Generals went for escalate. And sometimes for money reasons; the MIC didn't actually care if the war made any sense or not, as a war....

[JCricket]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Sometimes decisions are made for illogical reasons, eg, Dulles taking up the White Man's Burden after the French dropped it. Sometimes they are made for face-saving reasons, at each juncture where it was either escalate or admit the whole thing was a bad show, the Presidents and Generals went for escalate. And sometimes for money reasons; the MIC didn't actually care if the war made any sense or not, as a war.........

as long as they were making money on it.

Finished it for you. And yeah, that is the problem with most wars these days.

I did some quick reading. Originally it was indo-china, a French colony. The Germans capturing France in WWII "destabilized" the French colony. This brought in the Japanese as well. Further, it allowed the colonies a little freedom, due to lack of political control by the French.
This is a highly paraphrased condensed version of what I read. I think I am fairly close though.

During this time, the countries of Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, and Thailand became countries. The Vietnamese, in the north had declared there independence and the Soviet Union and China recognized them. This was a communist government. However, I also read it was brutal. Murdering something like 200,000 people for being "land owners". The combination of the red scare and these factors is what led Eisenhower and then ultimately the people of the US to support the south.

Does this sound correct?

[Oerets]

I remember watching it on the news with my Father. Who just returned from from over there. He was on a helicopter carrier full of Marines. He take was the military had their hands tied by politicians. The military knew where they NVA were but for whatever reasons could not take them out. Had to wait to be attacked most of the time. Retired because of the discuss with what he experienced.

When my draft number came up a three on my 18th birthday, he told me to wait for the letter. Not to jump the gun and join up right away. Guess what never got the letter, didn't ask way either.

I remember one story of them getting the wounded out of a valley. He said there were hundreds of dead VC armed with crossbows spears and knifes. The plan was to get weapons from our guys. Had no idea of what air power and automatic weapons were capable of. Wrapped themselves up like mummies and carried ladders into battle also. He also said they were HOPPED UP on DRUGS!



Barney

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by JCricket

as long as they were making money on it.

Finished it for you. And yeah, that is the problem with most wars these days.

I did some quick reading. Originally it was indo-china, a French colony. The Germans capturing France in WWII "destabilized" the French colony. This brought in the Japanese as well. Further, it allowed the colonies a little freedom, due to lack of political control by the French.
This is a highly paraphrased condensed version of what I read. I think I am fairly close though.

During this time, the countries of Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, and Thailand became countries. The Vietnamese, in the north had declared there independence and the Soviet Union and China recognized them. This was a communist government. However, I also read it was brutal. Murdering something like 200,000 people for being "land owners". The combination of the red scare and these factors is what led Eisenhower and then ultimately the people of the US to support the south.

Does this sound correct?

Dulles was the power house not Eisenhower. He was determine to go in whether communists were benign or brutal. He was a firm believer in the
Domino Theory.

Here is a short speech by Dulles at the fall of Dien Bien Phu.
It is indicative of his determination.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1DMMZzYADc