Bwaaaahahahahahaaahahah!!!

[Oerets]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

Of course we need to show compassion, but we also need to be open and honest as to what is occurring.

DACA was an attempt to do just that. Congress was failing to address the problem. We can argue the many reasons just why. Obama acted to help those in desperate need of it, when none was coming from the very ones who should be.

Short of a police state it will continue on and on. From those who hate any and all of the governments involvement in ones personal life. I see it ironic they are all for show me your papers.



Barney

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by Oerets

DACA was an attempt to do just that. Congress was failing to address the problem. We can argue the many reasons just why. Obama acted to help those in desperate need of it, when none was coming from the very ones who should be.

Short of a police state it will continue on and on. From those who hate any and all of the governments involvement in ones personal life. I see it ironic they are all for show me your papers.



Barney

The attitude exhibited by some in the show paper crowd has a very modern history. It stems from their disappointment in what they thought would lead to a well organized immigration system flowing from Reagan's Amnesty.

Instead what ensued was ramshackle.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

Of course we need to show compassion, but we also need to be open and honest as to what is occurring.

I don't hear a whole lot of compassion, openness, or honesty from the right on this issue. What I hear is a whole bunch of ideology, gamesmanship, and playing to one's partisan base.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

I don't hear a whole lot of compassion, openness, or honesty from the right on this issue. What I hear is a whole bunch of ideology, gamesmanship, and playing to one's partisan base.

Not much compassion from right, but the right is more honest and open than others. Their argument Reagan has already shown compassion and such only created a bigger incentive...another amnesty.

The left uses racist tag to suppress dissent.

Hispanics went to polls in big numbers and helped elected Obama for the first time. After the election they expected Obama to move fast on immigration, because he at the time had the House and the Senate. Obama however placed immigration on the back burner.

The Democrats are the least honest. They use immigration as a major political tool.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

Not much compassion from right, but the right is more honest and open than others. Their argument Reagan has already shown compassion and such only created a bigger incentive...another amnesty.

The left uses racist tag to suppress dissent.

Hispanics went to polls in big numbers and helped elected Obama for the first time. After the election they expected Obama to move fast on immigration, because he at the time had the House and the Senate. Obama however placed immigration on the back burner.

The Democrats are the least honest. They use immigration as a major political tool.

Like I said. I get confirmation in the most interesting ways.

But what the hell...let's say "Democrats" use immigration as a political tool. And then let's put everything that both sides use as political tools on a continuum. Y'know...put immigration up against...guns as a political tool...or fear mongering racism as a political tool...or sticking your noses into American women's reproductive organs as a political tool...or voter suppression as a political tool...or union busting as a political tool...or teaching Genesis in science class as a political tool...I got dozens more where these came from. And let's see where these political tools rank on the despicable scale. Political tools of the right...these things have been on the top of my despicable political tool list for over 4 decades. "Openness and honesty from the right...my ass.

I don't have to create a comparative list of useful political tools. I did it a long time ago. And it's why I've been a progressive all my life.

One last fucking thing. I didn't bring up party. I'm comparing progressives with conservatives...when I do that it's always you people who bring up "Democrats." It's always you people who resort to "party" labels. It's all you got.

[Dondilion]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Like I said. I get confirmation in the most interesting ways.

But what the hell...let's say "Democrats" use immigration as a political tool. And then let's put everything that both sides use as political tools on a continuum. Y'know...put immigration up against...guns as a political tool...or fear mongering racism as a political tool...or sticking your noses into American women's reproductive organs as a political tool...or voter suppression as a political tool...or union busting as a political tool...or teaching Genesis in science class as a political tool...I got dozens more where these came from. And let's see where these political tools rank on the despicable scale. Political tools of the right...these things have been on the top of my despicable political tool list for over 4 decades. "Openness and honesty from the right...my ass.

I don't have to create a comparative list of useful political tools. I did it a long time ago. And it's why I've been a progressive all my life.

One last fucking thing. I didn't bring up party. I'm comparing progressives with conservatives...when I do that it's always you people who bring up "Democrats." It's always you people who resort to "party" labels. It's all you got.

You want to preclude people with huge political and judicial power.

[donquixote99]

If I may interject.... If by 'preclude' you mean 'outvote,' and thereby quash wrong policy, sure. When did I sign up to allow wrong policy if I can stop it by legitimate means?

Compromise, btw, is always an expedient. An expedient can be admirable, if it's the only way to get some good out of a situation. And 'some good' can include allowing our conservative countrymen to feel OK with policy too. But there must be a limit to how much 'wrong' you accept in order to get some 'right.' The price can be too high.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

If I may interject.... If by 'preclude' you mean 'outvote,' and thereby quash wrong policy, sure. When did I sign up to allow wrong policy if I can stop it by legitimate means?

Compromise, btw, is always an expedient. An expedient can be admirable, if it's the only way to get some good out of a situation. And 'some good' can include allowing our conservative countrymen to feel OK with policy too. But there must be a limit to how much 'wrong' you accept in order to get some 'right.' The price can be too high.

I've always had this problem compromising with those for whom I have no respect. This last election and the post election behavior of conservatives and their brethren in the Republican party have convinced me that my analysis of them has been pretty much spot on.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by Dondilion

You want to preclude people with huge political and judicial power.

Almost as inane a comment as your suggestion that those on the right are "more open and honest than others."