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02-05-2015, 09:05 AM
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Reformed Know-Nothing
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MoCo, MD
Posts: 25,907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donquixote99
Finn, I'm fully willing to accept that your kids are exceptionally talented. Probably 95th percentile or better in the math SATs, right? And they had family tradition to build on, a secure economic background, and parents who understood what a technical education requires and helped them along. God help us if all those advantages can't pave the way for success.
Do you suppose it's valid to want the economy to work for the other 95% too?
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I was responding to the assertion that "people under 30 are screwed on the job venue." If you major in the right discipline, this is not even remotely true, regardless of where you find yourself on the economic spectrum.
In fact, minority kids in technical/scientific disciplines are in even higher demand that middle-class kids and are virtually guaranteed multiple job offers. I personally have been on multiple recruiting trips to traditionally black universities as well as the University of Mayagüez in Puerto Rico actively seeking out minority kids with engineering degrees, while deliberately ignoring graduates of prestigious universities.
It is, of course, true that minority kids need to want to go to school and study in order to succeed. I'm not sure what can be done to inculcate these values, but I can't help but think the best place to start would be with their own families. FWIW, my son's two best friends are first-generation Nigerian and Haitian-American engineering graduates of Florida A&M (a traditionally black university). Their parents came here from their native countries with hardly a dime in the pockets and without formal education and their sons are now highly successful Professional Engineers (one is mechanical, the other electrical).
__________________
As long as the roots are not severed, all will be well in the garden.
Last edited by finnbow; 02-05-2015 at 09:21 AM.
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02-05-2015, 09:54 AM
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Ready
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 19,161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnbow
I was responding to the assertion that "people under 30 are screwed on the job venue." If you major in the right discipline, this is not even remotely true, regardless of where you find yourself on the economic spectrum.
In fact, minority kids in technical/scientific disciplines are in even higher demand that middle-class kids and are virtually guaranteed multiple job offers. I personally have been on multiple recruiting trips to traditionally black universities as well as the University of Mayagüez in Puerto Rico actively seeking out minority kids with engineering degrees, while deliberately ignoring graduates of prestigious universities.
It is, of course, true that minority kids need to want to go to school and study in order to succeed. I'm not sure what can be done to inculcate these values, but I can't help but think the best place to start would be with their own families. FWIW, my son's two best friends are first-generation Nigerian and Haitian-American engineering graduates of Florida A&M (a traditionally black university). Their parents came here from their native countries with hardly a dime in the pockets and without formal education and their sons are now highly successful Professional Engineers (one is mechanical, the other electrical).
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The fact remains that everyone can't be engineers. What's your solution for the bottom half of the bell curve? Odd jobs off the Internet at pennies a shot? See Robert Reich collum in my paper today: The Share the Scraps Economy
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02-05-2015, 10:04 AM
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Jigsawed
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donquixote99
The fact remains that everyone can't be engineers. What's your solution for the bottom half of the bell curve?
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I expect that question to come from Sancho Panza.
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02-05-2015, 10:09 AM
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Ready
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 19,161
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Sancho had a pretty good 'personal assistant' type job. So I suppose far from asking the question, he'd offer that as the answer.
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02-05-2015, 10:11 AM
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Reformed Know-Nothing
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MoCo, MD
Posts: 25,907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donquixote99
The fact remains that everyone can't be engineers. What's your solution for the bottom half of the bell curve?...
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I'm not sure I have the answer, yet I do believe that it's mostly only possible to help those who are also willing to help themselves (in areas such as career development).
__________________
As long as the roots are not severed, all will be well in the garden.
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02-05-2015, 11:43 AM
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Resident octogenarian
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 20,860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donquixote99
The fact remains that everyone can't be engineers. What's your solution for the bottom half of the bell curve? Odd jobs off the Internet at pennies a shot? See Robert Reich collum in my paper today: The Share the Scraps Economy
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The thing is that despite the Great Depression we always had food on the table. I also had a father that taught me, well Mom taught me also but that had more to do with behavior. So when I showed up at school my stomach was full and I had a decent night's sleep. This is not the case with a lot of children today.
Plus we did not have all those "experts" telling the teachers how to teach which was a distinct benefit.
As for engineers well the IEEE did make me a full member and suggested I really should apply as a senior member.
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02-05-2015, 12:13 PM
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Ready
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 19,161
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So, those who are poor lack ambition and character and proper upbringing, so it's really all their fault and we need not concern ourselves?
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02-05-2015, 12:32 PM
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AKA Sister Mary JJ
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Upper East Tennessee
Posts: 5,897
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donquixote99
So, those who are poor lack ambition and character and proper upbringing, so it's really all their fault and we need not concern ourselves?
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Some of them. I know a few.
__________________
"Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please." (Mark Twain)
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02-05-2015, 01:26 PM
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Reformed Know-Nothing
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MoCo, MD
Posts: 25,907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donquixote99
So, those who are poor lack ambition and character and proper upbringing, so it's really all their fault and we need not concern ourselves?
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I guess it depends on whether you think we should continue our policies reflecting a "soft bigotry of low expectations."
__________________
As long as the roots are not severed, all will be well in the garden.
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02-05-2015, 02:45 PM
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Resident octogenarian
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 20,860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donquixote99
The fact remains that everyone can't be engineers. What's your solution for the bottom half of the bell curve?
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Depends upon which side you are on, left or right.
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