This one is for the "non-believers."

d-ray657 · #1 10-15-2010, 05:25 PM

I often find reason to differ with WAPO columnist and former Bush speechwriter Michael Gerson. His positive account of the manner in which an unabashed atheist has lived his life and in which he now faces his mortality is, however, a model of understanding. Indeed, Gerson celebrates the integrity with which Christopher Hitchens has lived his life. This commentary provides an excellent example of one of my core religious beliefs - that we, as humans, are incapable of judging the ultimate destiny of another person.

Regards,

D-Ray

finnbow · #2 10-15-2010, 09:37 PM

I certainly have no understanding for the @ssholes who say he has cancer because of his atheism. I've always enjoyed and admired Hitchens. He's a brilliant and entertaining guy.

BlueStreak · #3 10-15-2010, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow

I certainly have no understanding for the @ssholes who say he has cancer because of his atheism. I've always enjoyed and admired Hitchens. He's a brilliant and entertaining guy.

For a believer to accept that a non-believer can still be a kind and decent person may, to some, raise an intriguing yet disconcerting question;
Does one have to believe in order to enter the Kingdom of Heaven?

Or, put more crudely, as a friend once quipped to me;
"I don't have to be threatened with eternal damnation to see that being an a**hole isn't good."

Dave

whell · #4 10-16-2010, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

For a believer to accept that a non-believer can still be a kind and decent person may, to some, raise an intriguing yet disconcerting question;
Does one have to believe in order to enter the Kingdom of Heaven?

Or, put more crudely, as a friend once quipped to me;
"I don't have to be threatened with eternal damnation to see that being an a**hole isn't good."

Dave

Kind of a Catch 22. If you don't believe in God, than I'm not sure how one can believe in the Kingdom of Heaven or its existence, which is God's domain.

OTOH, I agree that one need not believe in God to be a good person.

noonereal · #5 10-16-2010, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell

OTOH, I agree that one need not believe in God to be a good person.

How anyone would think different baffles me.

(this is a great set up for you Whell

)

merrylander · #6 10-16-2010, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell

Kind of a Catch 22. If you don't believe in God, than I'm not sure how one can believe in the Kingdom of Heaven or its existence, which is God's domain.

Re-read the post.

BlueStreak · #7 10-16-2010, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell

Kind of a Catch 22. If you don't believe in God, than I'm not sure how one can believe in the Kingdom of Heaven or its existence, which is God's domain.

OTOH, I agree that one need not believe in God to be a good person.

I stated that as one who hopes there is some sort of afterlife that's better than this life. But, wonders if an Atheist who has led a good life will be pleasantly suprised to see that he was wrong and is allowed in when his time comes.

Did that make sense?

Dave

d-ray657 · #8 10-17-2010, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

I stated that as one who hopes there is some sort of afterlife that's better than this life. But, wonders if an Atheist who has led a good life will be pleasantly suprised to see that he was wrong and is allowed in when his time comes.

Did that make sense?

Dave

Kind of reminds me of an episode of Barney Miller (one of the all-time great sit-coms). Deitrich mentioned his atheism when one of the other cops asked him what would happen if he died and found out if he was wrong. His response: "Oops."

Regards,

D-Ray

whell · #9 10-17-2010, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

I stated that as one who hopes there is some sort of afterlife that's better than this life. But, wonders if an Atheist who has led a good life will be pleasantly suprised to see that he was wrong and is allowed in when his time comes.

Did that make sense?

Dave

I guess I see what you're saying. Its one of those "who knows the mind of God" questions. In other words, when person who has rejected God all their life asks to be let in, how would God respond? Humans generally don't handle rejection well, but who knows what God might do?

The other way to look at this might be: if one rejects God all their life, and is as firm in their convictions as Hitchens is, why would they even want to spend eternity in Heaven with God? There's enough info available in this life to make a decision to accept of reject God. What difference would reconsidering your position after death make? If you found comfort in this life with the idea that death brings with it the end of existence and there is nothing else, why would you change you mind after death?

merrylander · #10 10-17-2010, 07:33 AM

Why take the position that an athiest upon death would ask, or need ask, for redemption? Believers refer to Him as "Our father", now being a father myself I can understand that there are times when your children disappoint you, but you never stop loving them. If we can do that surely He is much better than we are, why would He stop loving us?