Russia and China: Fledgling Alliance

[whell]

This ain't good, and is an example of additional cooperation between these two long time enemies.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=11511156

Our historic foreign policy toward China has been based on containment/engagement, with an underlying assumption that China and Russia would remain uneasy neighbors. It would seem that our foreign policy could use some re-thinking.

[d-ray657]

Not available.

Regards,

D-Ray

[Boreas]

This is bad why? Is there something inherently nefarious about Russia attempting to open Asian markets for their oil?

Do you believe that Russia and China are currently our enemies or were you speaking from an historical frame?

If the latter and not the former, do you believe that a foreign policy of containment is advisable? If so, what are we attempting to contain? It was once "the spread of communism" through the dreaded "domino theory". Is that still operative?

If so, how do you feel about GW Bush financing two wars with Chinese loans and buying war materiel from them for use in those wars?

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

Not available.

Regards,

D-Ray

You have to sign up first.

John

[whell]

Fixed link

[whell]

Originally Posted by Boreas

This is bad why? Is there something inherently nefarious about Russia attempting to open Asian markets for their oil?

Do you believe that Russia and China are currently our enemies or were you speaking from an historical frame?

If the latter and not the former, do you believe that a foreign policy of containment is advisable? If so, what are we attempting to contain? It was once "the spread of communism" through the dreaded "domino theory". Is that still operative?

This is not just about oil. These two powers have been increasing their efforts toward economic and political cooperation. This is a relationship as much about mutual resource sharing as it is facilitating the mutual territorial expansionism. For Russia, dominance over eastern Europe is the objective. Putin has not been shy about tipping his hand in this regard. For China, Asian hegemony is the objective. Both countries are also looking to peddle influence in the Middle East at the expense of the US.

Originally Posted by Boreas

If so, how do you feel about GW Bush financing two wars with Chinese loans and buying war materiel from them for use in those wars?

Chinese are a major investor in US bonds. But to say the US war efforts were specifically financed by the Chinese is a bit like saying that the folks from Visa came out to serve you dinner at that nice Italian restaurant that you like to go to. And what war materiel did the US purchase from the Chinese? Lots of retirees hold US Bonds, too. Don't tell grandma and grampa they they've got middle - eastern blood on their hands.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by whell

This is not just about oil. These two powers have been increasing their efforts toward economic and political cooperation.

There are those who get all wet between the legs at the prospect of China and Russia at each others' throats. I'm not one of them. I believe it's natural and desirable that two great countries with a common border thousands of kilometers in length develop a peaceful and symbiotic relationship. It creates a more stable world, especially when counterpoised by a European/American alliance, each with its own sphere of influence.

This is a relationship as much about mutual resource sharing as it is facilitating the mutual territorial expansionism.

As in real estate? You really believe that Russia and China want to expand their territorial borders? Occupy Japan, for instance?

For Russia, dominance over eastern Europe is the objective. Putin has not been shy about tipping his hand in this regard.

I see Russia's position as one of looking after its own security in the face of an expanded and expanding NATO and the basing of US weapons systems in countries on their border. In other words, to the extent that Russia is a security threat, it's a threat of our own creation.

Both countries are also looking to peddle influence in the Middle East at the expense of the US.

Don't forget Africa. The Chinese especially are making great strides there through economic and resource development and public works projects to improve the quality of life there.

If Russia and China succeed in establishing any form of economic hegemony in Africa and the Middle East it will be because we actively destroyed our chances to do the same through military aggression in the Middle East, as I believe it to be and as it is unquestionably seen in the region, and through a combination of crass and brutal exploitation and neglect in Africa.

Chinese are a major investor in US bonds. But to say the US war efforts were specifically financed by the Chinese is a bit like saying that the folks from Visa came out to serve you dinner at that nice Italian restaurant that you like to go to.

They did, until I pay the bill, that is. Same with Bush and his wars.

And what war materiel did the US purchase from the Chinese?

Bullets, for one thing.

Lots of retirees hold US Bonds, too. Don't tell grandma and grampa they they've got middle - eastern blood on their hands.

Well, they do, just as all us taxpayers do but to equate individual bondholders to a foreign power, and one which you apparently regard as an enemy, holding billions in our debt is simply ludicrous.

John

[BlueStreak]

I dunno, John. I have very little trust (As in none.) for the Russians, especially with Putin in the picture, or the Chinese.

Dave

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

I dunno, John. I have very little trust (As in none.) for the Russians, especially with Putin in the picture, or the Chinese.

Dave

I certainly appreciate your perspective, Dave, with your having had a close up with Russian Fighters. Easy for me to say, sitting here in my recliner, but they didn't fire, right. Do you think our level of deterrence has fallen that badly?

Regards,

D-Ray

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

I dunno, John. I have very little trust (As in none.) for the Russians, especially with Putin in the picture, or the Chinese.

Dave

You can trust the Chinese and, to a somewhat lesser extent, the Russians to act in their own interest. It isn't in their interest to incur the military wrath of the West, which most assuredly would happen if they were to move into or threaten the territory of our Asian allies (Japan, South Korea and Taiwan) or of the NATO countries in Eastern Europe. This stuff is just PNAC hysterics.

John