Russia and China: Fledgling Alliance

[merrylander]

Russians still have this inherent fear of invasion from the east, the days of Ghenghis Khan and the Mongol hordes are still in the subconscious memory. I don't know what Putin is up to but I certainly do not trust him. Of course I do not have the advantage of having looked into his eyes and seen his soul.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

I dunno, John. I have very little trust (As in none.) for the Russians, especially with Putin in the picture, or the Chinese.

Dave

I have no trust for any country. Each country does what it views as best for itself and that is not and has not changed.
As with our country what may be good for a few at the top may not be good for the many.

[finnbow]

On Fareed Zakaria's show yesterday, he had a "China expert" on there who spoke to the issue of Chinese hegemony. He said that there is no indication that China has any aims outside of its borders and is far more interested in economic/developmental matters within its own borders.

I, for one, have no great fears of Russian and Chinese cooperation. Hell, they share the longest land border in the world (I think). Why shouldn't they try to reconcile their differences?

That said, I don't trust Putin any further than I can throw him. However, after our global gallivanting in the past decade, I'm not sure the rest of the world trusts us any more than they do the Russkis.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by finnbow

On Fareed Zakaria's show yesterday, he had a "China expert" on there who spoke to the issue of Chinese hegemony. He said that there is no indication that China has any aims outside of its borders and is far more interested in economic/developmental matters within its own borders.

I, for one, have no great fears of Russian and Chinese cooperation. Hell, they share the longest land border in the world (I think). Why shouldn't they try to reconcile their differences?

That said, I don't trust Putin any further than I can throw him. However, after our global gallivanting in the past decade, I'm not sure the rest of the world trusts us any more than they do the Russkis.

Why, you appeaser! Pinko! Fellow traveler!

John

[piece-itpete]

Threat assesment guys! The potential a Russkie/Chinese axis would have is more than startling. Natural resources alone, China has 90%+ of the worlds rare earth ore for example.

And yes it has aggressively expanded into Africa among other areas, and what it has shown to its' vassal states is enlightening.

We'd better hold on in the ME or we will be increasingly shut out.

Pete

[finnbow]

I may be wrong, but I see China wanting to expand economic influence, not political influence. Hell, it has never gone much beyond a bit of small scale sabre-rattling with regard to Taiwan.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Threat assesment guys! The potential a Russkie/Chinese axis would have is more than startling. Natural resources alone, China has 90%+ of the worlds rare earth ore for example.

Equating potential with intent. Sounds like the Bush doctrine to me.

And yes it has aggressively expanded into Africa among other areas, and what it has shown to its' vassal states is enlightening.

Aggressively? Where's the aggression? If you want to look at aggression, look, for example, at what Exxon Mobil is doing in the Niger Delta.

We'd better hold on in the ME or we will be increasingly shut out.

The only way we'll "hold on" in the Middle East it through a continued military occupation. We have lost the goodwill of the people of the region perhaps forever, given their long memories. Even those regimes that show us little more than token cooperation do so because we're the world's most profligate users of petroleum.

John

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Russians still have this inherent fear of invasion from the east, the days of Ghenghis Khan and the Mongol hordes are still in the subconscious memory. I don't know what Putin is up to but I certainly do not trust him. Of course I do not have the advantage of having looked into his eyes and seen his soul.

"If Mr. Bush thinks Putin (Pronounced "Poo-teen") is good guy, then Mr. Bush is a fool. Putin is KGB." Alex, a Russian friend of mine.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by finnbow

I may be wrong, but I see China wanting to expand economic influence, not political influence. Hell, it has never gone much beyond a bit of small scale sabre-rattling with regard to Taiwan.

You don't think the two are one and the same? With wealth comes power, does it not?

Dave

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by finnbow

I may be wrong, but I see China wanting to expand economic influence, not political influence. Hell, it has never gone much beyond a bit of small scale sabre-rattling with regard to Taiwan.

Well, there was Korea. The PLA was pretty actively involved there. That was 60 years ago, however, and the China of 1950 is a far cry from the one of today.

I agree that they are most concerned now with internal development (look at all the infrastructure projects they're engaged in now) and developing overseas markets for their products (look around your house). They realize what we've forgotten. They saw what a giant the US became when we were the largest importer of raw materials and the largest exporter of finished goods. The Chinese want some of that for themselves and I think they're going to get it. You don't bomb your customers. It's a very poor marketing strategy.

Parenthetically, but nevertheless pertinently, we're now the largest exporter of raw materials and the largest importer of finished goods. The last time we were a net exporter of raw materials and a net importer of finished goods was when we were thirteen little colonies in the British Empire. Then we saw that condition as an excuse for rebellion. Now we see it as one of the blessings of a "free market economy".

John