Hate Crime In Detroit?

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by whell

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2014/04/...-a-hate-crime/

Summary - pick up truck driver accidentally hits kid who walks into street without looking both ways. Pick up truck driver - white male, mid 50's - stops and walks back to the scene of the accident to render assistance. "A large group of men" - the family of the boy denies that they know who the men are - descend on the driver and beat him severely then flee from the scene. The boy was treated at a local hospital, kept overnight for observation, then released with - thankfully - minimal injuries. The pick up truck driver is now in intensive care in a local hospital and it is not yet known if he will survive.

The authorities have made statements that they will make every effort to find the assailants and that "vigilante justice" is not tolerated in the city. A local pastor has set up a fund for the driver and his family. Police have concluded that the driver of the pick up was not at fault, and that they boy apparently stepped out in front of the moving pick up. Police have also determined that the driver was apparently robbed during the beating - his money and some of his possessions were taken.

The police now have witness statements where they have taken descriptions and authorities have asked for the assistance of the local community in finding the attackers. However, as yet, the police have not yet released any descriptions of the attackers. In fact, in the local and national media, one must work fairly hard to find any reference to the race of the attackers. However, witness reports state that the attackers were African American men.

In the Trayvon Martin case, it was all about race, and it was about race from the moment of the very first report. The media kept feeding the race angle throughout - from the night of the incident right through and after the trial.

Its taken the local media a couple of days to get around to suggesting that race may have played a role in the attack in this case. I've not yet found any significant reference to race as a factor in this case. One has to wonder why the two stories have such disparate treatment in this press.

Historically, there's been a lot more white-on-black hate and violence than the reverse. The media has a norm that says they should try not to offer 'justification' for more of it.

You may now howl about the outrageousness-of-it-all. The media stuff, that is.

The violent attack against the driver is of course appalling.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by finnbow

As for the OP, I fundamentally disagree with the whole notion of "hate crimes." An assault or a murder is a crime, regardless of the motive(s) behind it.

With that idea, usually heard from right-wing opponents of hate-crime legislation, I respectfully disagree. Hate crimes are worse than 'plain' assaults in that the 'story' of them harms and terrorizes an entire group, and serves to foster more inter-group violence.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Pio1980

the TM case involved someone baiting a guy with a gun and bad judgement for what-ever reason.

Damn it, Pio, you simply don't know that! Even Zimmerman's testimony doesn't assert it. What are you doing here? Is this simply an effort to try to mitigate the obscenity of SYG? Concealed carry? I really don't get it!

John

[mpholland]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

With that idea, usually heard from right-wing opponents of hate-crime legislation, I respectfully disagree. Hate crimes are worse than 'plain' assaults in that the 'story' of them harms and terrorizes an entire group, and serves to foster more inter-group violence.

To me that would infer that if I were to go kill a black person because he/she were black, that would be worse than if I were to go kill a white person for any other reason.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by mpholland

To me that would infer that if I were to go kill a black person because he/she were black, that would be worse than if I were to go kill a white person for any other reason.

Or, if you were to kill a black person because he/she was black, that would be worse than if you were to go kill a black person for any other reason.

Or, if you were to kill a white person because he/she was white, that would be worse than if you were to go kill a white person for any other reason.

Or, if you were to kill a Muslim because he/she was a Muslim, that would be worse than if you were to go kill a Muslim for any other reason.

Or, if you were to kill a gay person because he/she was gay, that would be worse than if you were to go kill a gay person for any other reason.

Are you beginning to see now?

DQ and I have both made the point that the victim of a hate crime is merely a symbol for the actual target. Hate crimes go beyond the act itself. They send a message that, if you're black, or your white or if you're a Muslim or whatever, you could be next.

John

[Pio1980]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Damn it, Pio, you simply don't know that! Even Zimmerman's testimony doesn't assert it. What are you doing here? Is this simply an effort to try to mitigate the obscenity of SYG? Concealed carry? I really don't get it!

John

I mitigated the statement with "possibly", Zimmerman didn't and doesn't get a free pass from me for the demise of TM on anything. He instigated the confrontation and bears resposibility for the result
SYG needs some serious examination to protect all parties whether those protecting themselves and/or their own from a clear and present deadly hazard and subsequent legal harrassment, or someone being shot for no good reason by someone with anger issues and other asocial problems claiming SYG and walking away blameless.

[JJIII]

Seems to me the term "Hate Crime" trespasses into my thoughts where nobody has any business. Thoughts are not crimes (yet!), actions are.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by mpholland

To me that would infer that if I were to go kill a black person because he/she were black, that would be worse than if I were to go kill a white person for any other reason.

Yes. But it would not be worse than killing a white guy because he was white. Does that point assuage your feelings a bit?

When a person is targeted because of his group, this inspires fear and rage in others of the target group, while encouraging and modelling more violent behavior against the target group. It tends to do persistent harm to relations between groups. These are particular social harms that can be targeted by the law.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by JJIII

Seems to me the term "Hate Crime" trespasses into my thoughts where nobody has any business. Thoughts are not crimes (yet!), actions are.

It is no trespass if you make evidence of your thoughts manifest.

The thoughts of criminals are always germane. If I kill you with the back-swing of my pick-ax, because I don't know you're there, that's not a crime. Prosecution always requires some finding of criminal intent.

[Pio1980]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

Yes. But it would not be worse than killing a white guy because he was white. Does that point assuage your feelings a bit?

When a person is targeted because of his group, this inspires fear and rage in others of the target group, while encouraging and modelling more violent behavior against the target group. It tends to do persistent harm to relations between groups. These are particular social harms that can be targeted by the law.

Being the symbol target of someone's something really sux big-time.