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11-05-2010, 02:29 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStreak
Perhaps you don't agree. But can you at least see my point?
Dave
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Totally see your point. In fact, it's only because the Church that I go to, wanted to pick me up at the lowest point in my life and has never asked for once cent in return that led me to be an active member there. Other denominations could learn a lot from them.
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11-05-2010, 03:29 PM
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Resident octogenarian
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 20,860
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Sorry if anyone feels that I was suggesting that a true christian must live in abject poverty, far from it, just don't get your comfortable lifestyle at someone else's expense. If life gives you a few roses it does not hurt to share them either.
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt
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11-05-2010, 06:23 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-ray657
I was suggesting that it is not wrong for a pastor to be paid a comfortable living, when what he earns is probably below the market value for one in private industry who has similar training and similar responsibilities. Look at how much motivational speakers make - unless they live in a van down by the river.
Regards,
D-Ray
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Your point is not even apples to pineapples. No I am not suggesting they not get paid, but having ones own country, bank and religion is ludicrous.
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11-05-2010, 06:27 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamakiri
Totally see your point. In fact, it's only because the Church that I go to, wanted to pick me up at the lowest point in my life and has never asked for once cent in return that led me to be an active member there. Other denominations could learn a lot from them.
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You are a very lucky person to find a house of worship like that.
My experience with the catholic church does not even come close to that. They not only wanted 25% of my ex wife and I income, they also wanted our children's souls, so badly in fact that they made me sign papers that my children would not be raised in my own faith.
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11-05-2010, 06:33 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,348
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I stole every nickel I got.
Chas
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11-05-2010, 06:38 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,943
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Your state still has nickels ? Your better off then us here.
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11-05-2010, 11:03 PM
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Loyal Opposition
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Johnson County, Kansas
Posts: 14,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy
Your point is not even apples to pineapples. No I am not suggesting they not get paid, but having ones own country, bank and religion is ludicrous.
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My post was referring to Finn. When I said that what a pastor of a large church makes should compare to what a CEO should make, I was suggesting that, for the value many CEOs bring to the world, their salaries should shrink to something closer to what a minister makes.
I agree with you that churches should not be like businesses. I assume that you're referring in your post to the Vatican and it's various arms and branches. During the time of the Holy Roman Empire, the church had become a very political institution and political power. The institution was rife with corruption. I have observed that the more a church is run like a business (or a government), the more it moves away form its spiritual purpose. My wife worked in an administrative position in a church for awhile, but left very disappointed. Apparently you don't want to see the business operations of a church any more than you want to see sausage being made.
When a church is really fulfilling its purpose you see more stories like Kam's. My experience in the church I grew up in was that it was more like an extended family than a separate organization. People do watch out for each other and help each other. That is my experience in the church I attend now, as well, but it would more so if I stayed as involved as I would like to be.
To go back to the point of my earlier post, I have always appreciated having a church leader who has had doctoral level training. That allows him or her to bring a much deeper meaning to things we might have learned in church before. I have mentioned before how much I got out of attending a Sunday school class taught by a pastor who had previously been a Greek instructor in the seminary. IMHO, pastors' compensation should reflect the level of expertise they bring to the position. However, because I don't see a pastor's job as a salesman, like the others here, I consider most televangelists to be snake oil salesmen.
Regards,
D-ray
__________________
Then I'll get on my knees and pray,
We won't get fooled again; Don't get fooled again
Last edited by d-ray657; 11-05-2010 at 11:07 PM.
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11-05-2010, 11:33 PM
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Area Man
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamakiri
Totally see your point. In fact, it's only because the Church that I go to, wanted to pick me up at the lowest point in my life and has never asked for once cent in return that led me to be an active member there. Other denominations could learn a lot from them.
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Right on.
Dave
__________________
"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
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11-05-2010, 11:42 PM
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Area Man
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy
You are a very lucky person to find a house of worship like that.
My experience with the catholic church does not even come close to that. They not only wanted 25% of my ex wife and I income, they also wanted our children's souls, so badly in fact that they made me sign papers that my children would not be raised in my own faith.
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Now that is truly sickening. I would have told them where to shove those papers. But, then, I'm not known for my restraint and subtlety.
Bill Maher had a similar story. His mother was Jewish and his father Catholic.
He said he grew up horrified by the way the church and other Catholics treated his father, who remained a devoted Catholic despite the abuse, and literally demanded his mother renounce her faith. He said he would never forgive them for that.
Dave
__________________
"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
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11-06-2010, 07:56 AM
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Resident octogenarian
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 20,860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy
You are a very lucky person to find a house of worship like that.
My experience with the catholic church does not even come close to that. They not only wanted 25% of my ex wife and I income, they also wanted our children's souls, so badly in fact that they made me sign papers that my children would not be raised in my own faith.
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That was the case with my brother as well, but Quebec had always been priest ridden.
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.
Eleanor Roosevelt
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