Bernie and Hil head to flint

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

What a couple of douche bags debating in Flint for their own benefit. Vote for me and you can get all the clean water you want !

What sucks about it is both going there trying to outdo each other in promising Federal money to fix the situation. The state of Michigan made a conscious decision to gamble with the health of the folks in Flint and lost the bet. The state now needs to pay off its gambling debt.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by finnbow

What sucks about it is both going there trying to outdo each other in promising Federal money to fix the situation. The state of Michigan made a conscious decision to gamble with the health of the folks in Flint and lost the bet. The state now needs to pay off its gambling debt.

If Michigan pays for it, all that will happen is that the water rates for Michiganders, as well as anything else they can tweak without being accused of "raising taxes", will go through the roof. In other words, the victims will pay for the solution. If, on the other hand, the Feds pay for it, the cost will be spread out over a population of 330 million Americans instead of 10 million Michiganders.

Of course, in the wake of Reagan and Thatcher, this flies in the face of what in Conservative circles passes for a philosophy. There is no such thing as society after all. We are just a collection of individuals with no responsibility for the welfare of anyone else.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Boreas

If Michigan pays for it, all that will happen is that the water rates for Michiganders, as well as anything else they can tweak without being accused of "raising taxes", will go through the roof. In other words, the victims will pay for the solution. If, on the other hand, the Feds pay for it, the cost will be spread out over a population of 330 million Americans instead of 10 million Michiganders.

Of course, in the wake of Reagan and Thatcher, this flies in the face of what in Conservative circles passes for a philosophy. There is no such thing as society after all. We are just a collection of individuals with no responsibility for the welfare of anyone else.

What needs to be made clear to the citizens of Michigan (and other states like Kansas) is that decisions to install States' rights, supply-side, run-it-like-a-business types will bite them in the ass. I live in a fairly high-tax and well managed state and county (i.e., I get what I paid for). Why the hell should I also pay for conscious (and criminal) decisions by right-wing ideologues that went wrong in places like Michigan?

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by finnbow

What needs to be made clear to the citizens of Michigan (and other states like Kansas) is that decisions to install States' rights, supply-side, run-it-like-a-business types will bite them in the ass. I live in a fairly high-tax and well managed state and county (i.e., I get what I paid for). Why the hell should I also pay for conscious (and criminal) decisions by right-wing ideologues that went wrong in places like Michigan?

Because there is such a thing as society.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Because there is such a thing as society.

And there is such thing as responsibility. This isn't Katrina, Sandy, a flood or a storm - all acts of God. This was a conscious decision by the state of Michigan, driven by the desire to save money on the backs of Flint residents. Responsibility/accountability dictate that those responsible (i.e., the state of Michigan) pay for it.

There is a hitch, however, in that the EPA Regional Administrator chose to bury the problem caused by Michigan's deliberate decisions. Accordingly, I can envision some degree of cost-sharing, with the state of Michigan paying the brunt of it.

However, asking the Fed to pay the billions needed to completely replace all lead pipes when, in 6 months, reverting to Lake Huron water with appropriate anti-corrosion admixtures will ameliorate the problem to pre-crisis conditions is a bridge too far. Why should the Fed pay for local capital improvements?

[donquixote99]

In case I wasn't clear, the three features I listed in message 10 are features of all Obamacare plans.

Members of Congress have Obamacare plans. They get better than average versions, meaning lower deductibles/co-pays and low subsidized premiums, and VIP customer service, but at the 'catastrophic' end, it's same for everyone. 100% is 100%.

[Rajoo]

Since the ridiculous Citizens United ruling, the entire political system is totally out of control. So every man/woman for themselves in the political arena for all I care. If neither the media nor other politicians do not bother to correct blatant lying by the politicians, WTF?

Fearina grandstanded on the Planned Parenthood non scandal, why not let Bernie and Hillary make hay in Flint and shine a spotlight on their GOP governor? Par for the course.

[barbara]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

$600 million bucks for water pipes?



For a city of 100,000?



That's $6,000 for every man, woman and child. $24,000 for a family of four.



WTF?



Are they going to trade in the lead pipes for gold ones?

Not that I know anything about water pipes or how much it costs to put them in the ground.... But $ 6,000 per person doesn't sound so far off to me.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by barbara

Not that I know anything about water pipes or how much it costs to put them in the ground.... But $ 6,000 per person doesn't sound so far off to me.

Then make the Koch Brothers pay for it.

They won't even notice $600 million being gone.

http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...net-worth.aspx

[barbara]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

Then make the Koch Brothers pay for it.



They won't even notice $600 million being gone.



http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...net-worth.aspx

Didn't realize the Koch brothers had anything to do with the bad pipes. 😏