World Government?

[BlueStreak]

How many of us believe that the formation of a "World Government" is underway? That the formation and continued strengthening of the EU, the expansion of Global Trade, Open Borders policies and so on are all designed to erode the effectiveness of sovreign nations and their governments?

Deliberate steps on the path to world government?

If so, do you believe this to be a good thing, or a bad thing?

I offer no opinion at this point, I'm just trying to elicit your opinions.

Dave

(I thoght about putting this in "Conspiracy Theories" But figured "Global Politics" was more appropo.)

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

How many of us believe that the formation of a "World Government" is underway? That the formation and continued strengthening of the EU, the expansion of Global Trade, Open Borders policies and so on are all designed to erode the effectiveness of sovreign nations and their governments?

Deliberate steps on the path to world government?

If so, do you believe this to be a good thing, or a bad thing?

I offer no opinion at this point, I'm just trying to elicit your opinions.

Dave

Never happen.

National sovereignty and nationalism are in our DNA. We're primates and, as such, we are hard wired for organization into tribes (human) or troupes (simians). We'll never be able to shake off our need to distinguish between "us" and "them".

Hell, we can't even manage to do that within the nations and societies we've created for ourselves. Look at the political mess that's the focus of this board. We're even to the point where we literally hate each other on the basis of party affiliation, to say nothing of race or religion.

John

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Never happen.

National sovereignty and nationalism are in our DNA. We're primates and, as such, we are hard wired for organization into tribes (human) or troupes (simians). We'll never be able to shake off our need to distinguish between "us" and "them".


John

I disagree a little here John although your approach is indeed the way to analysis this. I would suggest that our hard wiring would indeed be attracted to our tribe becoming one. The whole idea is that a group is stronger than the individual and therefore provides safety. Hence one tribe of all human would provide (in theory) the end of war (threat to safety).
I see our hard wiring leading us to a one world government. The biggest obstacle are the powerful who will vie for control against one another.

This could be an interesting discussion but it is not well suited to an internet message board.

[finnbow]

I disagree a little here John although your approach is indeed the way to analysis this. I would suggest that our hard wiring would indeed be attracted to our tribe becoming one.

I guess it depends on how ones defines "tribe." I think a distinction needs to be made between tribe and species. We're all of the same species, but not the same tribe. Hell, we Americans (some of us anyway) revel in our differences with Western Europe (from whence we came (mostly)) even though our cultures are not that different.

As for being similar enough to an African Bushman or a Sunni Fundamentalist to say we have enough in common to become the same "tribe," we, as a species, have a ways to go.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by noonereal

I disagree a little here John although your approach is indeed the way to analysis this. I would suggest that our hard wiring would indeed be attracted to our tribe becoming one. The whole idea is that a group is stronger than the individual and therefore provides safety. Hence one tribe of all human would provide (in theory) the end of war (threat to safety).
I see our hard wiring leading us to a one world government. The biggest obstacle are the powerful who will vie for control against one another.

Tribalism isn't inclusive. It's exclusive, a way of separating us from, them - my tribe from those other tribes out there.

If this weren't so tribal organization would never have happened. Ironically perhaps, we organized into bands, tribes, etc. as a way to increase our ability (as individuals) to survive and compete in the environment with other humans. Organizing into collective groups was a way to separate us from our species as a whole. Tribal societies cooperate with some, usually those with whom we share bonds of extended kinship, as a way to compete with other tribes for control of resources.

I read an interesting book years and years ago titled "Yanomamo: The Fierce People" by Napoleon Chagnon. Really good book about a tribe in the Amazon rainforest. It's a brilliant examination of primitive tribal culture.

A Wikipedia link to "Yanomamo":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ya%CC%A7nomam%C3%B6

John

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Tribalism isn't inclusive. It's exclusive, a way of separating us from, them - my tribe from those other tribes out there.

yes but the mechanism that makes tribal bonding so instinctive is survival

I think we are on the same page but I am suggesting that there is nothing at conflict with a one world government (umbrella tribe) and local tribes (state governments) within that we have all sorts of sub groups 9which overlap) right down to localized street gangs or a set of best friends.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by noonereal

yes but the mechanism that makes tribal bonding so instinctive is survival

Well, kinship is pretty strong as well but when you talk about survival it all comes down to the individual. All human associations from nation to tribe to clan to nuclear family exist to facilitate the survival of the individual so that he or she can pass his or her genes on to the next generation.

Everything boils down to "me against the world". All social organization is subservient to that biological imperative.

John

[Zeke]

It will happen, but only if/when we discover we are "not alone" in the universe.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Zeke

It will happen, but only if/when we discover we are "not alone" in the universe.

A new "them" for us to unite against.

With apologies to Solomon Burke:

Everybody needs somebody
Everybody needs somebody to hate

John

[rickr15]

I tend to think its more likely that multinational corporations will render national governments obsolete. Any future wars are more likely to be for resources and profits.