The Great Experiment

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Twodogs

Yeh, right at 1360 a month for the wife and myself. Of course the guy with ten kids pays the same, it's like 8.50 an hour that we put in.


As far Canada's health care, I've just heard bad stories about long waits, trouble getting elective surgeries, what surgeries are considered elective (like hernias), etc.. There's that and the number of Canadians that say how they come here for medical treatment. I would not like the government to be involved in my health care at all. I'd much rather pay my 8.50 an hour, and keep it between me and my doctor. He has told me that he will be opening a cash only private practice when the time comes. He complains that he already spends more time filling out paper work than he does treating patients. I wonder how many of the truly good doctors will stay and do it by the government rules. I personally don't think everyone is going to buy health care insurance either, which is key for the Obama plan to work. Let's face it, we have a lot of folks on the dole already, and they aren't going to come up with that kind of money. They will get a fine, and ignore it. It all looks good on paper, but when you actually try to apply it real word, I think it will be a huge mess. I would have rather seen some smaller changes one at a time, than completely throwing out what has been working for so long, and replacing it with something that the majority of Americans do not want. My question about folks moving is sincere, I guess like Blue Streak it's mostly due to family. I just can't get it through my mind that some Americans think there is a better deal out there. Maybe I'm just stuck in my old ways and don't like radical change.

I waited two months for my hernia operation, paid a 20% copay ($1,800), and my insurance plan doesn't cover elective procedures at all. To be fair, they did not consider my hernia elective, but they just as easily could have.

I think the biggest problem with the current reform, PPACA, is that so few understand it. And that's where the current adminstration screwed up the worst. People fear and reject what they don't understand, especially when you try to push it past them.

But, I have as yet to see a Republican plan that I like, either. And, it looks like R&R are playng a similar, "Vote for us, then find out what's in it.", approach. Not much different than Pelosis gafffe, to my mind.

It's a mess, to be sure.

Dave

[mpholland]

As far as healthcare goes, I think our biggest problem is out of control costs, not lack of insurance. I really think that a person should be able to afford to go to a doctor with no need for insurance, and that is one area where I believe subsidies are necessary. Nobody should lack for medical care. With huge administrative costs, huge pharmaceutical and insurance company profits i think that costs which get passed down are just way out of control. That is my problem with government coverage for everybody. It is a wonderful idea, but it does nothing to lower healthcare costs so I feel taxes will just keep going up and up to cover everybody. My coverage is about the same cost as Jay's, but my employer pays 80% of that so I feel very fortunate. The problem I see with the "new" system is that soon my employer won't be able to afford coverage for us and I will either go broke trying to pay for it, or I will have to enroll in the government plan. I can't fathom the government operating it with any kind of efficiency, and I feel lack of competition will make prices jump higher and faster.

[BlueStreak]

But, treating the uninsured is a major cause of the out of control costs. If not the central cause. Any hospital administrator will tell you that.

Dave

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

But, treating the uninsured is a major cause of the out of control costs. If not the central cause. Any hospital administrator will tell you that.

Dave

That and the whole fee-for-service model.

[noonereal]

Originally Posted by mpholland

as far as healthcare goes, i think our biggest problem is out of control costs,



that is my problem with government coverage for everybody. It is a wonderful idea, but it does nothing to lower healthcare costs .

bingo!!!

[Twodogs]

Well, I guess depending on who wins in Nov. we will find out about this new plan. Romney has sworn to repeal it. Can he do that?

The other thing is how do the poorest people buy insurance. Somehow I get the feeling that I will be buying it for them, so why not just keep them in the emergency room. If they have insurance, they may use it to obtain drugs. They call it doctor shopping and you just keep going to different doctors for whatever until you get the one that will write you a script for what you want. I'm probably looking at this biased too, because of my feeling that the government has messed up everything we put them in charge of. Even highways now, and look at SS, and Medicare. What gives you folks confidence that it will be different this time. I see all kinds of opportunity for corruption here. Again, it looks great at first glance, but when you dissect it and add in the morals of an ever increasing group of bad people, I see the working class getting the shaft again.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Twodogs

Well, I guess depending on who wins in Nov. we will find out about this new plan. Romney has sworn to repeal it. Can he do that?

The other thing is how do the poorest people buy insurance. Somehow I get the feeling that I will be buying it for them, so why not just keep them in the emergency room....

Emergency rooms are crazy expensive (lots of equipment and health care infrastructure/staff) and don't do preventive care.

[barbara]

Two dogs, poor people don't buy insurance. They can't afford it. They go without proper medical care, then, because they don't have proper medical care, their condition worsens until they end up in the emergency room at which time your taxes pay for their care which, by the way, now costs a whole lot more than if they had proper medical care in the first place.

[Twodogs]

Originally Posted by finnbow

Emergency rooms are crazy expensive (lots of equipment and health care infrastructure/staff) and don't do preventive care.

True but do you really think the guys hanging out in the hood, and the illegals are going to buy this insurance? The whole plan revolves around the personal mandate, no? I doubt that the IRS will imprison people for not buying health insurance when they don't have two nickels to rub together. I have a very strong feeling of who will end up footing the bill. Who do you think will pay for all this insurance. (besides the money from medicare)

[Twodogs]

Originally Posted by barbara

Two dogs, poor people don't buy insurance. They can't afford it. They go without proper medical care, then, because they don't have proper medical care, their condition worsens until they end up in the emergency room at which time your taxes pay for their care which, by the way, now costs a whole lot more than if they had proper medical care in the first place.

Yes, and Obama care will make criminals out of these people. There is a mandate that states every citizen has to buy heath care insurance or face a fine. This is what I don't get, how do you get blood from a turnip?