Michigan and Job Growth

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Blue you know that the guys in the UAW took certain liberties that we wouldn't get away with. I'm not saying that's the only reason. Read Yates'es Decline and Fall of th American Autombile Industry sometime.

I love how when it comes to Canada everyone says 'it's the heath insurance' - but then why are jobs also moving to the southern US? Anyone?

And those nonunion auto makers do pay decently.

Pete

Decently with reference to what? As far as I know there are no "Right to work" provinces in the GWN, where the governments take a "let's bash unions" stance.

[piece-itpete]

Well over $20/hr for assembly line work.

It's my understanding that they do work'em hard though.

Pete

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Well over $20/hr for assembly line work.

It's my understanding that they do work'em hard though.

Pete

Your next question should be :"Where do I apply?"

When did we start hating on people for having a strong wage, and what purpose does that serve? When I was a kid we used to consider someone with a "good" job, meaning one with strong wages, insurance and some sort of retiement plan tio be "fortunate", "lucky" or "blessed". Now, all you hear is a bunch of shit about how undeserving everyone is. The assholes have even come out against the minimum wage.....$7.25 is exhorbitant to them. I can't help but wonder what's in the pot at the end of THAT rainbow. My guess is it isn't gold.

In case you haven't noticed, the villification always starts before the axe comes out. It's easier for the ruling class to attack and butcher once the public has been thoroughly convinced that "those lazy, overcompensated (Insert name of targeted workers here.)" have been relentlessly denounced in the media. Then no one cares when the union busting/outsourcing/plant closures/stripping of pay and/or benefits starts. See how your party has been fucking everyone now? It's really not that hard to figure out. Just tune into Fox and see who is about to get bent over next.

BTW, machine operators at my plant make $13/hour-"permanent" employee, temps make $8/hour----the majority are temps, of course. But, $8/hour is a plenty for a bunch of dope smoking, trailer park dwelling mush-heads. According to conservative pundits, anyhow.

Dave

[Bigerik]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Well over $20/hr for assembly line work.

It's my understanding that they do work'em hard though.

Pete

Ain't gonna live the American dream on $40 K a year...

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Blue you know that the guys in the UAW took certain liberties that we wouldn't get away with. I'm not saying that's the only reason. Read Yates'es Decline and Fall of th American Autombile Industry sometime.

"I love how when it comes to Canada everyone says 'it's the heath insurance'" - but then why are jobs also moving to the southern US? Anyone? Because blacks are desperate and rednecks are gullible-----they think the whole thing is about screwing over Yankees and blacks. Trust me, they bitch about their jobs CONSTANTLY.....among themselves, because standing up to the boss means you're a whiner, or a pussy.... Come on down, Pete. You'll see what I'm talkin' about.

And those nonunion auto makers do pay decently.

Pete

In the bolded---Because it's true.

And,

Yates can't tell possibly me anything I don't already know about the UAW and the auto industry, Pete. Or the steel industry and it's unions for that matter, either.

Dave

[Charles]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Your next question should be :"Where do I apply?"

When did we start hating on people for having a strong wage, and what purpose does that serve? When I was a kid we used to consider someone with a "good" job, meaning one with strong wages, insurance and some sort of retiement plan tio be "fortunate", "lucky" or "blessed". Now, all you hear is a bunch of shit about how undeserving everyone is. The assholes have even come out against the minimum wage.....$7.25 is exhorbitant to them. I can't help but wonder what's in the pot at the end of THAT rainbow. My guess is it isn't gold.

In case you haven't noticed, the villification always starts before the axe comes out. It's easier for the ruling class to attack and butcher once the public has been thoroughly convinced that "those lazy, overcompensated (Insert name of targeted workers here.)" have been relentlessly denounced in the media. Then no one cares when the union busting/outsourcing/plant closures/stripping of pay and/or benefits starts. See how your party has been fucking everyone now? It's really not that hard to figure out. Just tune into Fox and see who is about to get bent over next.

BTW, machine operators at my plant make $13/hour-"permanent" employee, temps make $8/hour----the majority are temps, of course. But, $8/hour is a plenty for a bunch of dope smoking, trailer park dwelling mush-heads. According to conservative pundits, anyhow.

Dave

An operator only makes $13 per???

Shit, I pay more than that for a quasi skilled remodeling carpenter who doesn't even have a drivers license. And I would pay more if times weren't so hard. Or the fuck head could hold it together to hold a drivers license longer than 30 days.

I even furnish a company truck.

And this is in Bugtussell, taxes and the cost of living are pretty reasonable.

Don't sound like them Eyeties are doing ya'll any favors.

Chas

[BlueStreak]

Speaking of "Big Steel".......an excellent, truly objective look at the decline of the steel industry is ".....and the Wolf finally came." by John Hoerr.

One quote from this book that sticks in my head is from an 1988 interview with J. Bruce Johnston, Cheif Negotiator for the Steel Industry in the 1970s-early 1980s;

"It's become customary to blame the union for everything. The truth is that there are two signatories on every contract. There were plenty of times that we, negotiating on the management side were in a position to play hardball....but all the big guys in Pittsburgh cared about was avoiding a strike, hence the '73 contract*."

*In 1973, management demanded a ten year "no strike clause". In exchange, they agreed to a 4% annual increase in addition to annual COLA increases. This meant that union employees in 1974-1981 recieved pay increases of 15-18% annually. The industry requested renegotiation in '78, but the USWs national council voted against it. In 1981 the two sides finally agreed to renegotiate, but, by then it was too late. The massive closings had already begun.

See? Foolishness all around.

Initially, the unions demand in '73, was simply for the COLA and nothing else. Sometimes I wonder if the "no strike clause" was worth it. In the book, Mr. Johnston didn't think so. Over that seven years not paying that extra 4% would have saved them 28% of the cost increases. Might have made a difference, I dunno. But, I'll bet that was a huge chunk o' change.

Dave

[Bigerik]

Great post, Dave!

[Rex E.]

Originally Posted by Bigerik

Ain't gonna live the American dream on $40 K a year...

Shit....most of us have been doing it our entire working lives(and dreaming of the day we could reach $40K). Better pay would be great but the "American Dream" still lives with us "working poor" also.

[djv8ga]

You can live pretty damn good in AZ. on 40K.