What makes politics so divisive?

[noonereal]

I think it's as simple as tribal bonding. Each party creates an image or brand and as a result of our upbringing and needs we identify with one.
As with any group we identify with we tend to dress and act like them. Blindly adopting the views of our party then is no more than a natural extension of this bonding exercise.

As we know tribal bonding is an unconscious drive within us grown from self preservation IE safety in numbers. Sadly, given that this mechanism is primal it is not likely our partisan nature will leave us anytime soon.

I have always though that a sad part of political bonding is when people go to the poles and vote against their own best interests in an instinctive reflex to group association.

[soundhound]

Originally Posted by kretinus

I think it's simply because this nation has been content to sit back and do nothing while both parties became slaves to special interest groups who serve agendas instead of the country.....The balance was lost, and now real America is a ping pong ball being knocked about between opposing forces.

we are not only content, we are snowballed. i know people who vote republican because that's how their parents voted. they have no idea what the republican platform is, nor what the democratic platform is. they were just raised to believe that good americans are republicans. and vice versa.

americans are programmed from birth. we are taught that our country is the greatest country. that our government is the best government. that living the american dream is the ideal way of life. as long as we can sit back on our couches watching our big screen tv's, drive our gas guzzling suv's, and ride our boats, rv's, 4 x 4's, etc. on the weekend, we don't give a damn about poverty, pollution, starvation, disease, or anything else. we just happily go about our lives with blinders on to the ugly truth.

and we are afraid of change no matter how much change is needed. we are unwilling to make any kind of sacrifice for the general good. we want to continue to live the american dream, no matter what harm comes from it.

so as long as we have ours, we are going to keep voting for the same assholes who are slaves to their campaign contributors, the ones that are programming us. as long as they can make us think that we are living the good life, then they can continue to get rich off of us. and as long as we remain contented with our little slice of the pie, we seem to be happy to go on living oblivious.

[Charles]

It's because we're a bunch of suckers, and the politicians know it.

It's the Wizzard of Oz/playing both sides against the middle routine.

As long as they can keep us slugging it out over one issue or the other, they can hide behind the curtain and pull the levers. They have human nature to their advantage.

But, when the great unwashed quits all of the infighting, and starts to collectively look for the turd in the punch bowel...it's not long before their sorry asses are spied sticking out from behind the curtain.

Then it's pitchfork and torch time. It's happened before, and will most likely happen again. Bad thing is, the pitchfork and torch brigade may eliminate one group of bottom feeders, but they're soon replaced by new ones. To the cheers of the multitudes.

Perhaps we really are too stupid to live without our masters.

Chas

[Charles]

and we are afraid of change no matter how much change is needed. we are unwilling to make any kind of sacrifice for the general good. we want to continue to live the american dream, no matter what harm comes from it.

Not to get crossways, but if I'm going to sacrifice for the general good, I'd kind of like to make that decision myself. And I believe the law of the land gives me that right.

Now, when people with guns (Fed Gov) comes down and tells me that they're going to help themselves to however many of my assets they want, and are going to disperse them however they feel they should, I start to get a little hot.

Sir, that is theft, and I will use any and all means in my power to see that it does not happen. If you would like to contribute to the greater good, feel free, I will not stand in your way. But what's mine is mine, it's not yours to do with as you see fit. Once again, the letter of the law supports my arguement.

Do as you please, I for sure do. But try to stay out of my affairs, for I try to stay out of yours.

Chas

[merrylander]

"Mr. President

I confess that there are several parts of this Constitution which I do not at present approve, but I am not sure I shall never approve them: For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged by better information, or fuller consideration, to change opinions even on important subjects, which I once thought right, but found to be otherwise. It is therefore that the older I grow, the more apt I am to doubt my own judgment, and to pay more respect to the judgment of others. Most men indeed as well as most sects in Religion, think themselves in possession of all truth, and that whenever others differ from them it is so far error. Steele a Protestant in a Dedication tells the Pope that the only difference between our Churches in their opinions of the certainty of their doctrines is, the Church of Rome is infallible and the Church of England is never in the wrong. But though many private persons think almost as highly of their own infallibility as of that of their sect, few express it so naturally as a certain French lady, who in a dispute with her sister, said "I don't know how it happens, Sister but I meet with nobody but myself that's always in the right - Il n'y a moi qui a toujours raison."
In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such, because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as others have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other.. I doubt too whether any other Convention we can obtain, may be able to make a better Constitution. For when you assemble a number of men to have the advantage of their joint wisdom, you inevitably assemble with those men, all their prejudices, their passions, their errors of opinion, their local interests, and their selfish views. From such an assembly can a perfect production be expected? It therefore astonishes me, Sir, to find this system approaching so near to perfection as it does; and I think it will astonish our enemies who are waiting with confidence that our councils are confounded like those of the Builders of Babel; and that our States are on the point of separation, only to meet hereafter for the purpose of cutting one another's throats. Thus I consent, Sir, to this Constitution because I expect no better, and because I am not sure, that it is not the best. The opinions I have had of its errors, I sacrifice to the public good. I have never whispered a syllable of them abroad. Within these walls they were born, and here they shall die. If every one of us in returning to our Constituents were to report the objections he has had to it, and endeavor to gain partisans in support of them, we might prevent its being generally received, and thereby lose all salutary effects & great advantages resulting naturally in our favor among foreign Nations as well as among ourselves, from our real or apparent unanimity. Much of the strength& efficiency of any Government in procuring and securing happiness to the people, depends, on opinion, on the general opinion of the goodness of the Government, as well as the wisdom and integrity of its Governors. I hope therefore that for our own sakes as a part of the people, and for the sake of posterity, we shall act heartily and unanimously in recommending this Constitution (if approved by the Congress & confirmed by the Convention) wherever our influence may extend, and turn our future thoughts & endeavors to the means of having it well administered.

On the whole, Sir, I cannot help expressing a wish that every member of our convention who may still have objections to it, would with me, on this occasion doubt a little of his own infallibility, and to make manifest our unanimity, put his name to this instrument."

Ben Franklin, Philadelphia 1787

Quote without comment

[Combwork]

Originally Posted by merrylander

"Mr. President

I confess that there are several parts of this Constitution which I do not at present approve, but I am not sure I shall never approve them: For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged by better information, or fuller consideration, to change opinions even on important subjects, which I once thought right, but found to be otherwise. It is therefore that the older I grow, the more apt I am to doubt my own judgment, and to pay more respect to the judgment of others. Most men indeed as well as most sects in Religion, think themselves in possession of all truth, and that whenever others differ from them it is so far error. Steele a Protestant in a Dedication tells the Pope that the only difference between our Churches in their opinions of the certainty of their doctrines is, the Church of Rome is infallible and the Church of England is never in the wrong. But though many private persons think almost as highly of their own infallibility as of that of their sect, few express it so naturally as a certain French lady, who in a dispute with her sister, said "I don't know how it happens, Sister but I meet with nobody but myself that's always in the right - Il n'y a moi qui a toujours raison."
In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such, because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as others have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other.. I doubt too whether any other Convention we can obtain, may be able to make a better Constitution. For when you assemble a number of men to have the advantage of their joint wisdom, you inevitably assemble with those men, all their prejudices, their passions, their errors of opinion, their local interests, and their selfish views. From such an assembly can a perfect production be expected? It therefore astonishes me, Sir, to find this system approaching so near to perfection as it does; and I think it will astonish our enemies who are waiting with confidence that our councils are confounded like those of the Builders of Babel; and that our States are on the point of separation, only to meet hereafter for the purpose of cutting one another's throats. Thus I consent, Sir, to this Constitution because I expect no better, and because I am not sure, that it is not the best. The opinions I have had of its errors, I sacrifice to the public good. I have never whispered a syllable of them abroad. Within these walls they were born, and here they shall die. If every one of us in returning to our Constituents were to report the objections he has had to it, and endeavor to gain partisans in support of them, we might prevent its being generally received, and thereby lose all salutary effects & great advantages resulting naturally in our favor among foreign Nations as well as among ourselves, from our real or apparent unanimity. Much of the strength& efficiency of any Government in procuring and securing happiness to the people, depends, on opinion, on the general opinion of the goodness of the Government, as well as the wisdom and integrity of its Governors. I hope therefore that for our own sakes as a part of the people, and for the sake of posterity, we shall act heartily and unanimously in recommending this Constitution (if approved by the Congress & confirmed by the Convention) wherever our influence may extend, and turn our future thoughts & endeavors to the means of having it well administered.

On the whole, Sir, I cannot help expressing a wish that every member of our convention who may still have objections to it, would with me, on this occasion doubt a little of his own infallibility, and to make manifest our unanimity, put his name to this instrument."

Ben Franklin, Philadelphia 1787

Quote without comment

Superb. I've never read that through before. Why don't todays politicians speak like that? Is it because they can't, or because although they can, they have to talk in soundbites for TV news?

[Charles]

Superb. I've never read that through before. Why don't todays politicians speak like that? Is it because they can't, or because although they can, they have to talk in soundbites for TV news?


I donno, maybe Budweiser won't sponsor it.

Chas

[merrylander]

That speech of Franklin's was recorded by James Madison in his "Notes of debates in the Federal Convention of 1787". Actually, Franklin wrote it out the night before and the speech was read by James Wilson of the Pennsylvania delegation. Franklin was getting on in years at that point, having been replaced as Ambassador to France by Thomas Jefferson.

The ISBN # is 0-393-30405-1 published by W.W. Norton & Company of New York and London. I highly recommend it to anyone wanting a true understanding of the Constitution.