Bud is two execs Lite-r

[GChief]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

I point out that the gun slaughter in this case right here is the supposed victim's fantasy. The person he identifies as a hater certainly likes to anger-trip, but has not to my recollection expressed any kill-fantasies.

Correct me if I'm wrong....

Your not wrong at all... but it is the possible next step. That lack of anger control can and is an issue.

[BigElCat]

Also, good job with the psych analysis DQ. No joke, or sarcasm.

Not that it matters, but I went to Grad School full-time for three years in Educational Psychology and Research. I can talk psychology all day.

I did get kicked out without an advanced degree, so there's that.

This forum is virtually the only place I haven't been (permanently) kicked out of, knock on wood. Pardon the Hillbilly speak. Been driving a forklift for a long time.

[bobabode]

Back and forth off topic chitchat deleted. Carry on.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by whell

Wow, hate much Ike?



So, under Michigan law, the child does not need parental consent to seek counseling. It's not forever: no more than 12 visits and no more than 4 months. After that, and/or if treatment goes beyond the office setting and/or includes meds or other medical treatment, you damn betcha the parents need to be informed.

Michigan confidentiality law is the law in Michigan, it isn't the law anywhere else. When a counselor knows that a minor with gender identity issues, gay/lesbian issues, or any other issues is going to be chastized, shamed, punished, neglected, or beaten by their asshole parents following the "for your own good" guidelines, the parents are not going to be informed that their abused and/or neglected kid is getting help for it from a third party. And if it's bad enough you damn betcha I will call child protective services down on the neglectful/abusive (and that includes emotionally neglactful/abusive) parent's ass in a fucking nanosecond.

Because...the reason, above all other reasons, for the existence of conficentiality laws that protect minors in all 50 states is to protect them from their fucked up religious fanatic or otherwise neglectful and/or abusive parents.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by BigElCat

Also, good job with the psych analysis DQ. No joke, or sarcasm.

Not that it matters, but I went to Grad School full-time for three years in Educational Psychology and Research. I can talk psychology all day.

I did get kicked out without an advanced degree, so there's that.

This forum is virtually the only place I haven't been (permanently) kicked out of, knock on wood. Pardon the Hillbilly speak. Been driving a forklift for a long time.

If you're referring to my earlier post, much obliged. I worked residential construction, loading docks, and chemical manufacturing for years. I received my bachelors degree when I was 42 and my MSW at 47. Shown the door at three different colleges in my twenties, into the Marine Corps and my honest, hard working jobs after that. So...I applaud all good, hard, honest work.

As far as "psychology" goes...the main point of my post was about the law, not the treatment. All medical and mental health treatment is opinion, particularly in mental health. Even when there are tests and other evaluation criteria that confirm a diagnosis, which really only happens in medical cases, how to best treat a condition or disorder always ends up being somebody's opinion. All mental health diagnosis and treatment is clinically based, not medically based, it's all opinion.

But the law should be the law. And every shithole red state that is attempting to pass laws restricting gender-affirming treatment of minors over the age of 12 is a violation of confidentiality laws in those states. The only way to stop it violates mental health confidentiality. It's nobody's business but the kid's and the counselor's business.

PS - I'm a pretty emotionally reactive guy, so at some point I've also been handed my hat, and shown the door at every politial/current events form where I've been a member. Including this one, where Bob just finally had a gut full of me and put me on a 12 month vacation.

Bob also knows that I may be rancid butter, but I'm on his side of the bread...so here I am.

[GChief]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Michigan confidentiality law is the law in Michigan, it isn't the law anywhere else. When a counselor knows that a minor with gender identity issues, gay/lesbian issues, or any other issues is going to be chastized, shamed, punished, neglected, or beaten by their asshole parents following the "for your own good" guidelines, the parents are not going to be informed that their abused and neglected kid is getting help for it from a third party. And if it's bad enough you damn betcha I will call child protective services down on the parents in a fucking nanosecond.

Because...the reason, above all other reasons, for the existence of conficentiality laws for minors in all 50 states is to protect minors from their fucked up religious fanatic (or otherwise incompetent/violent) parents.

This place still needs a like button!!

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by whell

Wow, hate much Ike?

I know of no one - though there might be some - that are "anti-trans/anti-LGBTQ+". They may not agree point for point with the political agenda of some folks in that group, particularly those on the extreme.

Also, you seem to proceed from the assumption that all trans and LGBTQ+ folks are monolithic in their beliefs. I assure you that's not the case. For example, I've spoken to a few folks who happen to be gay who would not support giving a child anti-puberty meds.

Show me where I said anything about providing meds that affect sexual development to minors without dealing with the parental issues. It's so fucking rare for any minor to be prescribed such meds absent dealing with a kids parents...that it makes your argument stupid. Wow, stupid much, Mikey?

What types of care can you receive without parental consent?

[GChief]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Show me where I said anything about providing meds that affect sexual development to minors without dealing with the parental issues. It's so fucking rare for any minor to be prescribed such meds absent dealing with a kids parents...that it makes your argument stupid. Wow, stupid much, Mikey?

What types of care can you receive without parental consent?

It's just their talking points and they will always be used as a counter. I deal with these chuckleheads daily all day long.

[Oerets]

Being on the Left of most all issues I still have problems when it comes to minors and gender issues.

There are reasons why minors are not allowed to make some decisions before reaching a certain age.

Especially when it are ones with lasting results. I may feel sympathy for those who identity with another sex wanting to participate in sports. Yet still think they should not.

The same is true for gender reassignment before adulthood is where I stand. I have know many adolescents who were two, three or more different incarnations of self before reaching adulthood. Without the help from modern science or Doctors...

[whell]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Michigan confidentiality law is the law in Michigan, it isn't the law anywhere else.

Exactly. This is counter to your earlier post, where you stated:

"...the counselor is legally bound by mental health confidentiality law in all 50 states, to not disclose the content of the meetings with the child, or even disclose that the child is in counseling with anybody, including the kid's parents, absent a signed release of information."

This is not true, as noted in the example I provided for Michigan. But for that matter, its also not true for Ohio:

https://www.ohio.edu/student-affairs...%20Consent.pdf

Services provided to a minor pursuant to this section shall be limited to not more than six sessions or thirty days of services whichever occurs sooner. After the sixth session or thirty days of services the mental health professional shall terminate the services or, with the consent of the minor, notify the parent, or guardian, to obtain consent to provide further outpatient services.

So, Ohio also limits the extent to which treatment can continue w/o parental notification/consent.

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

When a counselor knows that a minor with gender identity issues, gay/lesbian issues, or any other issues is going to be chastized, shamed, punished, neglected, or beaten by their asshole parents following the "for your own good" guidelines, the parents are not going to be informed that their abused and/or neglected kid is getting help for it from a third party. And if it's bad enough you damn betcha I will call child protective services down on the neglectful/abusive (and that includes emotionally neglactful/abusive) parent's ass in a fucking nanosecond.

Because...the reason, above all other reasons, for the existence of conficentiality laws that protect minors in all 50 states is to protect them from their fucked up religious fanatic or otherwise neglectful and/or abusive parents.

Fair enough, and I have no issues with my daughters consulting privately with their doc - she's someone we trust and have built that trust over time. But, I think you're overstating the reason. By far, not all kids descend from " neglectful/abusive (and that includes emotionally neglactful/abusive) parent's."

The core of extending confidentiality to minors is to allow them to bring up subjects with their doc that they're not always comfortable speaking about in front of their parents. The law also allows the provider to choose to tell the parents about any care provided to the minor patient, for a compelling medical reason. Many of these docs are parents themselves, and they typically opt to loop the parents into anything that their child may be struggling with. They might not choose to relay their discussion with their teen patient word for word, but failing to disclose to supportive parents may also result in a less-than-optimal outcome for the patient.

My point is: there are reasonable limits to patient confidentiality when it comes to teens. For example, Washington State is proposing legislation that, I believe, is a "bridge too far".

https://mynorthwest.com/3874975/mino...nowledge-bill/

The state House of Representatives approved a bill protecting minors from being reported when seeking gender-affirming care and not wanting their parents to know about it.

Under Senate Bill 5599, children can stay at licensed youth shelters without their parent’s knowledge while seeking medical treatments like gender-transitioning services and medications.

I'll be damned if anyone is going to physically alter or medicate my kid without my foreknowledge and consent unless her life is in danger.