High school students ban national anthem from rallies

whell · #1 02-14-2018, 07:22 AM

Students at California High School in San Ramon decided at a recent pep rally that the national anthem will no longer be played, bucking tradition and drawing the school into a national controversy about what and whom the anthem represents.

At the start of a winter pep rally Jan. 19, the anthem wasn’t performed. No announcement was made and the rally started with competitions between different grades, organized cheers and other activities intended to pump up students.

Dennis Fiorentinos, 18, a senior at California High, was one of a handful of people who noticed.

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“They’ve always played the national anthem, so I thought maybe they just forgot, but then I realized there’s no way they just forgot the national anthem,” Fiorentinos told The Chronicle.

He inquired about the anthem’s absence and learned that the Associated Student Body and other student leaders had decided to remove it from the rally — something Fiorentinos views as an overreach.

finnbow · #2 02-14-2018, 07:41 AM

That's similar to what occurred in Maryland a few years back and Marylanders took it in stride and did the right thing. A verse in the state song referred to Lincoln as a "despot" and Northerners as "scum." The state scrubbed these lyrics and the sky didn't fall despite conservatives' insistence that it would.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...e-song-n541071

It's pretty insightful that these California kids were able to pick up on those nasty lyrics that should indeed be changed. I bet they're far more familiar with the anthem's lyrics than you are.

Are you OK with these lyrics?
“No refuge could save the hireling and slave/ From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave/ And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave.”

Personally, I'm not offended by someone else finding these racist lyrics offensive. I understand that conservative media has instructed you to be upset about it and it's very obedient of you to comply.

Is it your view that it is unpatriotic to object to racism? That seems to be the GOP position in the days of Trump.

nailer · #3 02-14-2018, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow

That's similar to what occurred in Maryland a few years back and Marylanders took it in stride and did the right thing. A verse in the state song referred to Lincoln as a "despot" and Northerners as "scum." The state scrubbed these lyrics and the sky didn't fall despite conservatives' insistence that it would.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...e-song-n541071

It's pretty insightful that these California kids were able to pick up on those nasty lyrics that should indeed be changed. I bet they're far more familiar with the anthem's lyrics than you are.

Are you OK with these lyrics?
“No refuge could save the hireling and slave/ From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave/ And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave.”

Personally, I'm not offended by someone else finding these racist lyrics offensive. I understand that conservative media has instructed you to be upset about it and it's very obedient of you to comply.

Is it your view that it is unpatriotic to object to racism? That seems to be the GOP position in the days of Trump.

The lyrics you quoted aren't racist in that the sentiment is being applied to whites (hireling) and blacks (slave).

whell · #4 02-14-2018, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow

I bet they're far more familiar with the anthem's lyrics than you are.

And you'd lose that bet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow

Are you OK with these lyrics?
“No refuge could save the hireling and slave/ From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave/ And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave.”

Personally, I'm not offended by someone else finding these racist lyrics offensive. I understand that conservative media has instructed you to be upset about it and it's very obedient of you to comply.

Is it your view that it is unpatriotic to object to racism? That seems to be the GOP position in the days of Trump.

I don't see racism in there. I can see how racism can be imputed to the lyrics, however. I see a description - maybe somewhat sensationalized - of the composition of British forces: slaves who chose to side with the Brits and fight for their freedom, and the "Hessian" soldiers.

I wonder if the kids had the context and history if they would find the lyrics "racist".

It not my view that its unpatriotic to be racist. It is my view that supporting historical ignorance doesn't do anyone any favors. Conservative media hasn't instructed me one way or another on this. I just find it needlessly divisive.

finnbow · #5 02-14-2018, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell

I don't see racism in there. I can see how racism can be imputed to the lyrics, however. I see a description - maybe somewhat sensationalized - of the composition of British forces: slaves who chose to side with the Brits and fight for their freedom, and the "Hessian" soldiers.

Condemning slaves who chose to seek their freedom by fighting for the British against their slave masters isn't racist? Who knew? Don't you find it a bit ironic that the anthem celebrating the "land of the free and home of the brave" also condemns those seeking their freedom from slavery? BTW, ~6,000 slaves won their freedom in this manner during the War of 1812.

When conservative media chose to feature this story about a single high school in CA, did they provide full historical context or did they go full Kaepernick to get a knee-jerk reaction such as yours?

whell · #6 02-14-2018, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnbow

Condemning slaves who chose to seek their freedom by fighting for the British against their slave masters isn't racist? Who knew? Don't you find it a bit ironic that the anthem celebrating the "land of the free

Let's not also forget that the Brits were making slaves of kidnapped American seamen, forcing them into service on British ships. While some read that lyrics as a reference to black slaves, other historians contend that this is more accurately a reference to the seamen who were forced into servitude under the British flag. Since the Star Spangled Banner is, in part, describing activity aboard British ships, this is likely the more relevant context.

I don't read "condemnation" in those lyrics. I simply read a description of what was happening during the battle.

The bottom line is this: Francis Scott Key never specified what the lyrics were in reference to, and you cannot make a definitive determination in context with the other lyrics. So, those who find the lyrics racist are imputing racism and making some pretty broad assumptions about the author of those lyrics.

finnbow · #7 02-14-2018, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whell

Let's not also forget that the Brits were making slaves of kidnapped American seamen, forcing them into service on British ships. While some read that lyrics as a reference to black slaves, other historians contend that this is more accurately a reference to the seamen who were forced into servitude under the British flag. Since the Star Spangled Banner is, in part, describing activity aboard British ships, this is likely the more relevant context.

I don't read "condemnation" in those lyrics. I simply read a description of what was happening during the battle.

The bottom line is this: Francis Scott Key never specified what the lyrics were in reference to, and you cannot make a definitive determination in context with the other lyrics. So, those who find the lyrics racist are imputing racism and making some pretty broad assumptions about the author of those lyrics.

BS ahistorical rationalization for your feigned outrage over what some California high school kids chose to do. First of all, who cares? Secondly, they're acting on their understanding on the genesis of these lines which is historically more accurate than yours (6,000 slaves earned their freedom fighting for the Brits in the War of 1812).

Gotta call BS on your "alternate facts" as to the genesis of these lines. The British navy "pressed" American merchant sailors into service, not unlike what they did to their own citizens off the streets of Great Britain during time of war. So, they weren't slaves, they were "pressed" men in the parlance of the times . (BTW, the slave trade was already outlawed by Great Britain at the time).

I think what you're seeing are some very bright, educated kids reacting to have an overt racist in the White House. Good for them.