My daughter says ..

[piece-itpete]

They never supposed we wouldn't be, of course. But forget that and look at their actions.

These are the guys that wrote the Constitution. Who do you think knows better as to what they meant?

Pete

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

They never supposed we wouldn't be, of course. But forget that and look at their actions.

These are the guys that wrote the Constitution. Who do you think knows better as to what they meant?

Pete

I honestly suggest that you find a copy of Madison's Note on the Debates at the Federal Convention in Philadephia. Read it, then go back a month later and read it again. I will happily argue the Constitution with Roberts, Alito and Scalia - and win.

[piece-itpete]

I agree with you D, but consider that the Bible was extensively taught in early American schools and did not result in a theocracy. Of course we were much stronger people then.

Btw, a fleeting memory popped up in my mind - while the Bible was not taught in school while I attended one of my elementary teachers, while discussing the battle where Washington had two horses shot out from him and 6? bullet holes in his jacket, blazed with intensity and said 'He was protected by God'.

Which is clearly why I'm an advocate of tyranny today

Pete

[Combwork]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

I agree with you D, but consider that the Bible was extensively taught in early American schools and did not result in a theocracy. Of course we were much stronger people then.

Pete

I remember in Huckleberry Finn or Tom Sawyer, there's a bit where a boy in a school bible class recites from memory the whole of a long list of Biblical events before collapsing in a fit. Was Mark Twain making this up? Again from the outside looking in, whether constitutional or not, you guys seem to have more than your fair share of extreme right wing Evangelists; some very intelligent (oxymoron?) and articulate speakers.

How far down in your society does the constitution go? On a local level, say in a town or a county rather than a state, would it be possible if enough people voted for them, for Christian Evangelists to make rulings that were either specifically pro-Christian, or against other faiths?

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by Combwork

I remember in Huckleberry Finn or Tom Sawyer, there's a bit where a boy in a school bible class recites from memory the whole of a long list of Biblical events before collapsing in a fit. Was Mark Twain making this up? Again from the outside looking in, whether constitutional or not, you guys seem to have more than your fair share of extreme right wing Evangelists; some very intelligent (oxymoron?) and articulate speakers.

How far down in your society does the constitution go? On a local level, say in a town or a county rather than a state, would it be possible if enough people voted for them, for Christian Evangelists to make rulings that were either specifically pro-Christian, or against other faiths?

Unfortunately it does seem possible for this to happen. In Kansas they voted to teach creationism in the public schools.

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by merrylander

Unfortunately it does seem possible for this to happen. In Kansa they voted to teach creationism in the public schools.

Yes, Rob, you and I see us for what it is, the teaching of religious dogma in the public schools. The trouble is the actual curriculum for "creation science" has been thoroughly scrubbed of religious references so the courts have a tough time nailing them on it.

John

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Yes, Rob, you and I see us for what it is, the teaching of religious dogma in the public schools. The trouble is the actual curriculum for "creation science" has been thoroughly scrubbed of religious references so the courts have a tough time nailing them on it.

John

What confounds me is that these hillwilliams are probably all smug in their "victory" over teaching creationism in school. I wonder if they'll be as smug when their kids are flipping burgers while kids from schools in other states that teach real science get their medical and engineering degrees.

[d-ray657]

I agree with the reasoning of the Supreme Court decisions upholding the principle that the state cannot prop up religion, and that any excessive entanglement between state authority and religion is a threat to religious liberty. Aside from that, folks like Barton appear to have a much broader agenda than promoting prayer and bible study in public schools.

With respect to the Washington quote, it is entirely appropriate for leaders to have deep religious beliefs. They don't abandon that right by becoming a public official. They do, however, take an oath to uphold the Constitution and their actions in the public sphere must reflect that oath.

Regards,

D-Ray

[piece-itpete]

We are a 'nothing' nation? Hmmm....

D rereading my post I'm afraid I've been guilty of being unclear. My teacher 'blazed with intensity and said 'He was protected by God' '.

We (in this case, the government) have always promoted Christianity, and still are.

Pete

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

We are a 'nothing' nation? Hmmm....

Pete, that's just dumb.

My teacher 'blazed with intensity and said 'He was protected by God' '.

We (in this case, the government) have always promoted Christianity, and still are.

Well, your teacher did, or at least promoted theism, but for your assertion to be true it would require that those words (s)he spoke were read from the official government approved text book or lesson plan.

How is the government "still" promoting Christianity? Is there a cross on the wall of the Senate or House chamber? A statue of Jesus atop the Washington Monument? An Angel perched on Lincoln's shoulder at his Memorial? Anything?

John