18 and Dead.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

Am I the only one who's had a gutfull of this bullshit?

Your ongoing racist and threatened persona?

I don't mind.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

Just think Zeke.

If we would have had a draft, you might have had to go.

You know, that's an interesting question that I have thought about...

American Indians possess an unique perspective on the United States, her military, and the roots of conflict. In addition, there are generalized cultural mores attached to the concept of warriordom as well as placement in society.

I do wonder whether that has had any impact upon my perception(s) of such?

All I know is that shooting at someone is easy, especially if you can say it's "your job," they "shot first" or you have brainwashed yourself into thinking it justified. Just keep up the mantra and the anger. Any animal can do that, it's not to be lauded. It's NOT brave.

But at the beginning? To be willing to say "convince me or come get me?" That's bravery and the difference between Muhammed Ali and folks that spent a decade in Canada.

I'd like to believe I'd be either brave or convinced.

[icenine]

Originally Posted by Zeke

In general? Sure.

But conscription is the back end result of a front end expansionist military policy. While that is a leadership issue, the fundamental key at the individual level is initially agreeing to adhere to it. If you sign on the dotted line, you're property.

That's not service, that's chattel.

If an individual signs a deal with the Devil and adheres to the terms? That can be respected. If an individual agrees to alignment then is upset that they don't control the deliverables? That's not really the Devil's fault.

And, if an individual believes it makes them somehow special to have survived the deal? Part of some sort of super citizenry amongst everyone else owed intellectual homage, PX, health care or hiring points?

That strikes me as self delusional.

There's been more than a bit of that in this thread, recently.

See above, dumbassery runs rampant.

You are kind of making Tom's point.
"The Devil" has a very good retirement for Armed forces members and great health care insurance by the way.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by icenine

You are kind of making Tom's point.
"The Devil" has a very good retirement for Armed forces members and great health care insurance by the way.

Tom's point is that they're special.

They're not.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Tom's point is that they're special.

They're not.

I have a great deal of respect for our Military.

Silly me.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Zeke

You know, that's an interesting question that I have thought about...

American Indians possess an unique perspective on the United States, her military, and the roots of conflict. In addition, there are generalized cultural mores attached to the concept of warriordom as well as placement in society.

I do wonder whether that has had any impact upon my perception(s) of such?

All I know is that shooting at someone is easy, especially if you can say it's "your job," they "shot first" or you have brainwashed yourself into thinking it justified. Just keep up the mantra and the anger. Any animal can do that, it's not to be lauded. It's NOT brave.

But at the beginning? To be willing to say "convince me or come get me?" That's bravery and the difference between Muhammed Ali and folks that spent a decade in Canada.

I'd like to believe I'd be either brave or convinced.

American Indians have a long and honorable tradition of service in the Military. You would have done well to follow in their footsteps. But you didn't.

[icenine]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Tom's point is that they're special.

They're not.

I think you are upset that most Americans think veterans are special. I think most of us veterans think of ourselves as run of the mill types. Sorry but America loves its veterans.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Tom Joad

American Indians have a long and honorable tradition of service in the Military. You would have done well to follow in their footsteps. But you didn't.

Ask yourself WHY there is a history?

Try to find any intellectual depth...

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by icenine

I think you are upset that most Americans think veterans are special. I think most of us veterans think of ourselves as run of the mill types. Sorry but America loves its veterans.

I'm not upset at all but am able to undermine both of your assertions, readily.

That seems to annoy the Vet entitlement types.

[Tom Joad]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Ask yourself WHY there is a history?

I really don't care why.

If they served with honor, that's good enough for me.

As for your disrespect for our Military, that's your problem.