Obama vs the Supreme Court

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by bhunter

Gee, and to think all the good the Warren Court did via judicial activism. What was once loved by the the left is now somehow wrong when the court might actually uphold the Consitutional limits. Do you actually believe that there ought be no limit to what the Federal Government can do?

During the years of the Warren court I was in Canada so I really paid little attention to the court's activities.

If justices (of any stripe) want to legislate let them run for Congress, simply because who regulates the Court? Although Jackson told them where to stick their decision and since they are really a toothless tiger I guess any president could do the same.

BTW given the state of current politics here I guess Ghenghis Khan is considered a leftie.

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by bhunter

Gee, and to think all the good the Warren Court did via judicial activism. What was once loved by the the left is now somehow wrong when the court might actually uphold the Consitutional limits. Do you actually believe that there ought be no limit to what the Federal Government can do?

My view of the Warren court was that it took an expansive reading of individual rights - the right to privacy, the right to marry, the right to travel, the right to be secure in one's homes and person, etc. I thought that you would agree with such an approach.

To the extent that the Warren Court presided over expansion of federal power, most all of it was in the public sphere - public education and commerce, overruling laws that perpetuated discrimination and upholding laws that prohibited discrimination and that governed employment relationships.

The activism of the current Court includes overruling past Supreme Court decisions, expanding the power of capital and limiting the power of the government to operate in the commercial sphere. To me, it is absurd to argue that commercial regulation is an infringement on individual liberty. I see the concentration of wealth as a considerably larger threat to individual liberty. Corporations wield tremendous power over the alternatives available to the average citizen: affecting the ability to work, to obtain access to health care and other services, affecting the air we breathe, the water we drink, the chemical hazards to which we are exposed in everyday life, limiting what we see and hear on the public airways, and spending billions of dollars to manipulate our tastes (without carefully crafted advertising, do you think people would actually prefer a Bud Light to a Guiness?).

Regards,

D-Ray

[RamblinE]

Originally Posted by bhunter

Do you actually believe that there ought be no limit to what the Federal Government can do?

When the government and the tax payer ends up footing the bill for people who don't have health insurance then the government is already involved and has the right to create a mandate like this. They're already paying for the faults of capitalist healthcare. It's expensive and it increases the deficit. Simply helping people to afford insurance would cut back on government spending in the long run, save people's lives and create a more productive work force. What's not to like?

[BlueStreak]

I just think it would be better for everyone if healthcare was taken out of the hands of employers. I hate the idea of people having to worry about how to pay for medical issues if they've been laid off, trying to retire or simply decide to change careers. And, I believe it's far more wrong and inefficient to simply walk off and not pay.

The answer is to see that everyone has their own coverage, one way or another. And that everyone who can pay in, is paying in.

Otherwise we're just pissing in the wind.

Think about it.

Dave

[mezz]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

If it's any consolation, if they declare it unConsititutional Obama can always chew them out next State of the Union

Pete

His opportunities to do so are now mercifully limited... and that deserves one hell of a Hallelujah!!!

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by mezz

His opportunities to do so are now mercifully limited... and that deserves one hell of a Hallelujah!!!

Don't count your chickens before you crow....

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

I just think it would be better for everyone if healthcare was taken out of the hands of employers. I hate the idea of people having to worry about how to pay for medical issues if they've been laid off, trying to retire or simply decide to change careers. And, I believe it's far more wrong and inefficient to simply walk off and not pay.

The answer is to see that everyone has their own coverage, one way or another. And that everyone who can pay in, is paying in.

Otherwise we're just pissing in the wind.

Think about it.

Dave

Well, have any of you know-it-all conservatives come up with anything better?

I mean y'all purport to have a better way to do just about everything.

So, what is it?

I await the wonderous experience of being enthralled by your boundless wisdom.

"Wisdom is the domain of the Wiz....(Which is extinct.)"

Dave

[bobabode]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Well, have any of you know-it-all conservatives come up with anything better?

I mean y'all purport to have a better way to do just about everything.

So, what is it?

I await the wonderous experience of being enthralled by your boundless wisdom.

"Wisdom is the domain of the Wiz....(Which is extinct.)"

Dave

Jeez Dave, Put up or shut up? How boorish of you......
Before you know it, they'll be some wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth about the HollywordLiberalPress.superpac. That'll be a hoot.

[whell]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Well, have any of you know-it-all conservatives come up with anything better?

I mean y'all purport to have a better way to do just about everything.

So, what is it?

I await the wonderous experience of being enthralled by your boundless wisdom.

"Wisdom is the domain of the Wiz....(Which is extinct.)"

Dave

Sure. To echo a point you made earlier, and to expand on it:

- no more employer group health insurance. Why should I get a better deal on health care costs versus someone who is self-employed just because I work for an employer who offers group coverage with a qualified (pre-tax) plan?

- health care is no longer 100% financed by insurance. It was a fine idea 60 years ago, but health care products, and health care utilization, have evolved and this is no longer a sustainable model.

- health insurance is only available as catastrophic coverage. Think of it as an insurance policy with a very high deductible: $50000 or maybe even $100000.

- Heath care costs over (pick a number, but you get the idea) $10000 are 100% tax deductible. They are fully deductible up to the level of the individual's catastrophic coverage policy. If you libs want get involved in means - testing health care cost/coverage, here's your chance: you can means-test the level of the tax deduction. Maybe the 1%'ers only get a 50% tax deduction for medical costs.

- Wellness / preventative services are also 100% tax deductible. Elective or cosmetic medical services or products are not tax deductible.

- Update or repeal outdated health care delivery regulations. For example, do I really need to see a physician to diagnose and treat a cold, sinus infection or ear infection? Why can't these services be provided by a nurse practitioner (a nurse with an advanced medical degree) or a physician's assistant? Get states out of the business of regulating health insurance since it is now only available as a catastrophic product.

- Some level of tort reform to get liability costs under control, as well as getting rid of the incentives for CYA medical services which drive costs and provide little value to the patient.

- Physicians can compete for delivery of services, offer competitive financing arrangements, which will help drive down costs. No need to negotiate with insurance carriers for reimbursement rates. No need to upcharge some patients to pay for reduced reimbursements from Medicare to defray the cost of treating other patients. And this is key - no giant government bureaucracies for health care financing, regulation, and mandating unproductive delivery models. No need for thousands of additional IRS agents to police the health care system.

There. Fixed. Under this model, everyone has access to the same health care system with the same level playing field. Individuals have an incentive to stay well by accessing wellness services, and also to stay well to avoid having to pay something out of pocket to cover their health issues (yes, even in health care spending you need to have skin in the game to drive healthy behaviors). And its cost effective - dirt cheap when compared to PPACA, and direct cheap compared to what other countries are going broke right now trying to finance. It allows for market forces to increase inefficiencies and encourage innovation, while getting rid of the incentives for delivery of CYA medical services.

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by whell

Sure. To echo a point you made earlier, and to expand on it:

- no more employer group health insurance. Why should I get a better deal on health care costs versus someone who is self-employed just because I work for an employer who offers group coverage with a qualified (pre-tax) plan?

- health care is no longer 100% financed by insurance. It was a fine idea 60 years ago, but health care products, and health care utilization, have evolved and this is no longer a sustainable model.

- health insurance is only available as catastrophic coverage. Think of it as an insurance policy with a very high deductible: $50000 or maybe even $100000.

- Heath care costs over (pick a number, but you get the idea) $10000 are 100% tax deductible. They are fully deductible up to the level of the individual's catastrophic coverage policy. If you libs want get involved in means - testing health care cost/coverage, here's your chance: you can means-test the level of the tax deduction. Maybe the 1%'ers only get a 50% tax deduction for medical costs.

- Wellness / preventative services are also 100% tax deductible. Elective or cosmetic medical services or products are not tax deductible.

- Update or repeal outdated health care delivery regulations. For example, do I really need to see a physician to diagnose and treat a cold, sinus infection or ear infection? Why can't these services be provided by a nurse practitioner (a nurse with an advanced medical degree) or a physician's assistant? Get states out of the business of regulating health insurance since it is now only available as a catastrophic product.

- Some level of tort reform to get liability costs under control, as well as getting rid of the incentives for CYA medical services which drive costs and provide little value to the patient.

- Physicians can compete for delivery of services, offer competitive financing arrangements, which will help drive down costs. No need to negotiate with insurance carriers for reimbursement rates. No need to upcharge some patients to pay for reduced reimbursements from Medicare to defray the cost of treating other patients. And this is key - no giant government bureaucracies for health care financing, regulation, and mandating unproductive delivery models. No need for thousands of additional IRS agents to police the health care system.

There. Fixed. Under this model, everyone has access to the same health care system with the same level playing field. Individuals have an incentive to stay well by accessing wellness services, and also to stay well to avoid having to pay something out of pocket to cover their health issues (yes, even in health care spending you need to have skin in the game to drive healthy behaviors). And its cost effective - dirt cheap when compared to PPACA, and direct cheap compared to what other countries are going broke right now trying to finance. It allows for market forces to increase inefficiencies and encourage innovation, while getting rid of the incentives for delivery of CYA medical services.

Do you actually believe this horseshit? Everyone has access? Even the people living below the poverty level. At least I now know enough to stop wasting my time reading your posts. It must be difficult to type with your head there.