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11-18-2010, 11:17 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 13,016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noonereal
hook line and sinker
honest Whell this is just shocking
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Its shocking that you believe its a good idea to tax our way out of this mess.
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11-18-2010, 11:22 AM
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Reformed Know-Nothing
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MoCo, MD
Posts: 25,913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell
So, we should raise taxes in the middle of an economic recession / depression? Even Krugman admits that when FDR did it, it lengthened the depression.
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I didn't say that. However, I tire a bit of the tax cut panacea offered up by the GOP.
__________________
As long as the roots are not severed, all will be well in the garden.
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11-18-2010, 11:24 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 3,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell
My post wasn't referring to marginal tax rates. I was referring to income tax rates.
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I stand by my statement- I don't think you can find anyone actually paying 42% in taxes.
I found this article on what Americans actually pay:
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-pay-in-taxes/
"The main findings: The overall effective federal tax rate (the ratio of federal taxes to household income) was 20.7 percent in 2006, with the highest quintile of American households paying 25.8 percent of their income in federal taxes."
This is no where near 42% or even 35%. Those figures are, at best, misleading.
__________________
Two days slow. That's what they are.
Last edited by Fast_Eddie; 11-18-2010 at 11:32 AM.
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11-18-2010, 11:45 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 13,016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie
I stand by my statement- I don't think you can find anyone actually paying 42% in taxes.
I found this article on what Americans actually pay:
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-pay-in-taxes/
"The main findings: The overall effective federal tax rate (the ratio of federal taxes to household income) was 20.7 percent in 2006, with the highest quintile of American households paying 25.8 percent of their income in federal taxes."
This is no where near 42% or even 35%. Those figures are, at best, misleading.
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We're addressing two separate subjects: marginal or effective rates (you) versus taxes on W-2 earnings (me). You suggest my numbers are misleading by posting something unrelated. Interesting debate strategy...
Last edited by whell; 11-18-2010 at 11:48 AM.
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11-18-2010, 11:50 AM
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Loyal Opposition
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Johnson County, Kansas
Posts: 14,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell
My post wasn't referring to marginal tax rates. I was referring to income tax rates.
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The fact is that, disregarding the numerous ways there are to avoid paying taxes at the taxable rate, the actual tax rate to which you refer is would not be paid by the earners in the $250k-$500K range, which reaches up into the 99th percentile. Actually, because the president's proposal expands the 28% bracket, those whose incomes are a bit above $250k will actually pay less in taxes.
If you weren't referring to marginal tax rates, your post is even more misleading than it originally appeared. Basically, it just ain't true. Even the millionaires don't actually pay that rate on their overall tax bill. That's like saying a chocolate milk shake is nothing but chocolate. It has chocolate in it, and it tastes like chocolate, but chocolate is only a small fraction of the total ingredients.
Regards,
D-Ray
__________________
Then I'll get on my knees and pray,
We won't get fooled again; Don't get fooled again
Last edited by d-ray657; 11-18-2010 at 11:57 AM.
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11-18-2010, 11:56 AM
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Loyal Opposition
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Johnson County, Kansas
Posts: 14,401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whell
We're addressing two separate subjects: marginal or effective rates (you) versus taxes on W-2 earnings (me). You suggest my numbers are misleading by posting something unrelated. Interesting debate strategy...
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Quote:
A marginal tax rate is the tax rate that applies to the last dollar of the tax base (taxable income or spending)
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Changing the definition midstream. Interesting debate tactic.
Regards,
D-Ray
__________________
Then I'll get on my knees and pray,
We won't get fooled again; Don't get fooled again
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11-18-2010, 12:07 PM
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Area Man
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piece-itpete
They create jobs by buying things? Sure, but that is a far far cry from building a company with 100s or 1000s or 10,000s of jobs. Sam did that.
Pete
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Without customers?
People have to have the money to buy the merchandise or the business goes down the tubes, regardless of how wealthy the business owner may be. This notion that only one narrow sector of society, "the wealthy", create jobs is absurd. It's like saying all you need to make plants grow is rain, without regard for soil or climate conditions.
If the tide fails to lift all boats the system is broken. If wages fall too far behind, prices need to drop in order to maintain demand. Unfortunately, we have been acheiving this through outsourcing which leads to higher unemployment and/or lower wages. Yes, you can increase productivity to some extent, but even this has it's limits.
Just my opinion, but it takes perfect sense to me.
Dave
__________________
"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
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11-18-2010, 12:10 PM
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Possibly admin. Maybe ;)
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Land of the burning river
Posts: 21,098
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If you're buying food, you're going to buy it somewhere. Sam convinced them to buy it at his place, and built the structure so that they would continue to do so happily.
He worked a lot harder than many, he had a better business sense than many, and made a ton of money while, whether they're 'good' or not, he made tens of thousands of jobs.
A bit more than buying a loaf of bread.
Pete
__________________
“How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.”
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11-18-2010, 12:32 PM
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Area Man
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Swamp
Posts: 27,407
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The forest for the trees, Pete.
They had to have the money to spend, or Sam would still be peddling his wares in a singular store in Arkansas. (If he weren't dead, that is.) It's not just the one loaf of bread---it's millions of loaves, peanut butter, and "Snuggies" and lampshades and beer and toilet paper.....being sold to millions of people who have the money to buy it. Did Sam just suddenly happen upon thirty billion dollars and hire a bunch of people? Or did he build his wealth over time selling his goods to the poor and working class?
Did Henry Ford make his fortune selling cars to billionaires? No, he sold them to a large, financially empowered middle and working class. No money in the workers pockets = no demand, no demand = no revenue.
It's not all that complicated.
Dave
__________________
"When the lie is so big and the fog so thick, the Republican trick can play out again....."-------Frank Zappa
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11-18-2010, 12:45 PM
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Possibly admin. Maybe ;)
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Land of the burning river
Posts: 21,098
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Ford's a great example. HE made something that people wanted, not his customers, and he (kinda) invented a new way to do it too. And changed the world to boot.
If poor folks drive the economy, Obama's doing a great job!
Pete
__________________
“How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg.”
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