Actual Armed Citizens

[flacaltenn]

I realized that some of you don't have a personal picture of where a gun fits in self-defense. And I dare you to read all these and not feel relieved for the victims. REAL victims - REAL crime. Not a mental incapacity due to their politics.

NOTE TO DAVE: Read the 2 incidents that happened at CHURCH. I did not dig those out specially for you..

I know these are old -- I clipped them back when I was on another board. But the series is still published monthly. Also note that these are just from a couple months in 1995 and 1996. They represent 100s of THOUSANDS of documented deterrent efforts of normal citizens to crime..

************************************************** ********

An attack in a Big Coppit Key, Florida, apartment turned
into a free-for-all after the assailant's hammer broke as he
struck a sleeping man in the head. The victim and his
girlfriend awoke and began struggling with the intruder, who
then retreated to a bathroom where he locked the door. A
houseguest, who had been sleeping on the couch, was awakened
by the commotion, grabbed his host's firearm and kicked in the
bathroom door. He held the suspect for the police. (The Lower
Keys Barometer, Big Pine Key, FL, 7/13/95)


Knocked to the floor of his Corinth, Mississippi, home by
a knife-wielding attacker and told that he was about to be
killed, the 80-year-old man offered his money and car keys to
the thug in hopes of appeasing him. It was to no avail,
however, as the assailant forced the man to a bedroom and
again informed him he was about to die. When his tormentor
momentarily left the room, the elderly man took his only
chance for survival. Grabbing his .38, he charged into the
hall and loosed two rounds at his attacker, who immediately
fled the home. (The Northeast Mississippi Daily Journal,
Tupelo, MS, 9/26/95)

The justice system had failed to protect Wichita, Kansas,
resident Carla Grayson from a violent ex-boyfriend. After three
years of physical abuse, 19 arrest warrants (all of which went
ignored by her tormentor as he repeatedly neglected to appear in
court), and the filing of no-contact orders, Grayson put an end
to the situation. When the abuser burst into her home, she shot
him dead. No charges were filed. (The Eagle, Wichita, KS,
12/17/95)

A masked housebreaker almost pondered a bit too long as he
stared down the barrel of Marsha Beatty's 9 mm. The criminal, one
of a gang of four, burst into the bedroom of her Fort Wayne,
Indiana, home, but Beatty grabbed his Tec-9 and stuck her own
autoloader between his eyes, ordering him to drop the pistol.
When he hesitated, the householder announced, "All right, I'm
going to kill you." That halted his indecision and he ran,
pursued by Beatty and her roommate, who had taken up her own 9
mm. "When they saw two women with guns, they ran," Beatty said
later. (The News Sentinel, Fort Wayne, IN, 12/6/95)

Enid, Oklahoma, resident Anthony Martin first heard his
doorbell ring, then heard the sound of somebody kicking in his
back door. Martin grabbed his shotgun and went to investigate,
meeting two juveniles in his hallway. Martin held the
housebreakers, one of them armed with a big knife, for police,
but before they could arrive, one of them fled. The remaining
suspect was taken into custody and his accomplice was arrested a
short time later. (The News & Eagle, Enid, OK, 11/30/95)

"Even the Lord's house isn't holy anymore for these people.
If they're crazy enough to do something like this to a holy
place, there's no telling what they'd do," said Knoxville,
Tennessee, pastor Ted Padgett after using a handgun to capture a
man burglarizing the church office. Alerted by a church
custodian, Rev. Padgett retrieved his .22 from the trunk of his
car and entered the church where he came face to face with the
stunned intruder, a parolee. He then stood the criminal against a
wall and patted him down as the two waited for police. (The
News-Sentinel, Knoxville, TN, 11/30/95)

When a young Prather, California, woman ran to a local
church for protection after being threatened by a violent family
member, the pastor unhesitatingly offered her sanctuary. When the
woman's tormentor arrived with a firearm at the pastor's door, he
exchanged words with the minister and shot him in the hand.
Wounded, the pastor slammed the door shut. His assailant managed
to kick it open, but not before the pastor was able to retrieve
his own firearm. Forced to defend himself, the pastor fired a
single point-blank shot, killing his attacker. (The Mountain
Press, Prather, CA, 12/13/95)

A prison minister from Little Rock, Arkansas, Jack Seaver
was used to dealing with tough men. So when one of three teenaged
bandits turned angrily toward Seaver after robbing him in his
home and approached with knife in hand, the minister understood
he had to defend himself. Quickly, he grabbed his .22-caliber
rifle and began firing, striking his aggressor. Police later
arrested the wounded suspect and one of his accomplices. "I
wasn't going to shoot anybody at all until I felt threatened,"
the minister said. (The Democrat-Gazette, Little Rock, AR,
1/6/96)

Two would-be armed robbers found that a real .357 trumps a
BB gun every time when they tried to hit a Fort Wayne, Indiana,
grocery store. Assistant manager Shaun Imbody quickly identified
the criminals' phony armament and ordered, "Put down your toy,
the game is over." State police, staking the business out,
immediately entered the store and arrested the pair. A police
official noted that Imbody's knowledge of guns and quick action
saved the police a nighttime chase of the two crooks. (The
Journal Gazette, Fort Wayne, IN, 1/1/96)

Pistol in hand, Vu Vinh Vuong dashed from the kitchen of his
family's Savannah Georgia, restaurant at the sound of his
mother's screams. Encountering an armed bandit clad in a red ski
mask in the dining room, Vuong opened fire, hitting his assailant
and sending him running. The injured suspect was arrested minutes
later. Vuong's father, Do, had decided to purchase the pistol
after a previous robbery left both father and son, then unarmed,
seriously wounded by gunfire. (The News-Press, Savannah, GA,
1/22/96)

"You can't even feel safe in your own neighborhood," says
Sondra Evelyn Kinnett of Annapolis, Maryland. Kinnett's home was
broken into by a man who lives only a few blocks away. Fortunately,
her son, Michael Strissel, was there when it happened. Awakened by
the burglar's footsteps, Strissel grabbed his shotgun, confronted
the criminal as he hid in a bedroom, and held him at gunpoint until
police arrived. (The Capital, Annapolis, MD, 10/14/94)

JoEllen Hammersley almost became a cop 20 years ago, and maybe
she missed her calling. Hammersley was pulling up to a bank in East
Chicago, Indiana, when she heard screams and saw a man run off with
a woman 's purse. Without hesitation, Hammersley retrieved her .32
from her purse and gave pursuit. With the help of a bystander, she
caught the thief and held him at gunpoint for police. Hammersley
received a Citizens Award from the mayor for her action. The local
police chief remarked: "It's people like Mrs. Hammersley who make
my job a lot easier." (The Times, Munster, IN, 9/29/94)

One moment it was a routine morning at Gregory Morris's
Inglewood, California, furniture store. The next moment it was
"like one of them shoot'em-up movies." Morris and an employee fired
at least 20 shots defending their lives against an armed robber who
threatened to kill them. He fired 13 times. "I'm on the phone with
911 and I'm screaming for help," says Morris. "There's bullets all
over the place. It's like pop, pop, pop, pop, pop." The battle
ended with the thug prone with a bullet through his cheek. Morris
and his employee were unharmed. Police say the criminal had served
less than three months of a two-year prison sentence for robbery.
(The Daily Breeze, Los Angeles, CA, 8/27/94)

Jack Parker's parents have lived in the same Little Rock house
for 30 years. But the neighborhood has deteriorated so much that
Parker fears for their safety and often stays with them at night.
When the family dog began barking at 1 a.m., Parker grabbed a
pistol. Finding an intruder behind the house, Parker yelled at him
and was answered by a gunshot. He shot back, hitting and killing
him. Police say no charges will be filed against Parker. (Arkansas
Democrat Gazette, Little Rock, AR, 9/22/94)

On his final run of the night, Rochester, New York, pizza
deliveryman Michael Vaccaro was set upon by a group of five to
seven men. One of them shoved a gun in Vaccaro's face, while
another took him in a chokehold. Vaccaro was able to free himself
from the stranglehold, pull his gun and shoot the man holding a gun
on him. At the sound of shots, the gang fled, stealing Vaccaro's
car. The wounded suspect was apprehended and faces multiple
charges.(Democrat and Chronicle, Rochester, NY, 10/9/94)

When Louis Simoni walked out of a Rialto, California,
restaurant and into the parking lot, he had no idea there were two
men inside his car. As Simoni approached, one of the thieves gunned
the engine and tried to back over him. That's when Simoni pulled
his handgun and shot the driver, killing him. Simoni was not
charged in the shooting. (The Sun, San Bernardino, CA, 10/3/94)

After a man pounded on her door, cut the electric, telephone
and alarm system lines to her house and launched several bricks
through her windows, 61-year-old Annie Holt decided she'd had
enough. With her .22 derringer in hand, the Nashville resident
repeatedly warned her harasser to stop trying to force entry or be
shot. He didn't stop, so Holt finally shot and killed him. Police
did not expect charges to be filed against Holt. (The Tennessean,
Nashville, TN, 10/10/94)

A wheelchair-bound 71-year-old Henrico County, Virginia, woman
proved too tough for the likes of a local burglar. Lillian Allen,
who keeps a .32 under her pillow, wheeled herself into the bedroom
when she saw a criminal armed with a tire iron enter her home
through a window. After she fired on the intruder, he fled out the
front door. The doughty grandmother says crime won't run her out of
her neighborhood. "As long as I have the gun, I feel secure with
that," she said. (Times- Dispatch, Richmond, VA, 10/18/94)
The American Rifleman, March 1995

[BlueStreak]

Thank You. Interesting accounts and I am sure there are more. As I am sure someone else could find plenty of articles telling of accidental firearm deaths as well. We do live in a large country of over three hundred million after all.

A story come to mind from one of those "Hidden Camera" shows on t.v.....

Philadelphia, Pennsylvania;

A man wearing a ski mask walks into a convenience store, points his gun at the elderly woman behind the counter, and tells her "Open up the register and give me all of the money!"

She replies, "I'm not giving you a damn thing."

He says, "Give me the money, or I'll kill you."

She replies, "My husbands dead, half of my friends are dead, and my kids never visit me. All I've got is this lousy job. So go ahead and shoot me, I don't care."

He stepped back, shook his head and walked back out the door.

Dave

[flacaltenn]

Whatever works right? But don't try that misery and guilt thing unless you're a certified Jewish Mother in Law...

[BlueStreak]

I've heard about that.....You have my sympathies.....

Dave

[piece-itpete]

LMAO!

Flac, those stories, they MUST be in a different country, because there's no violent crime here....

I'll have to copy some out of the American Rifleman, they happen every day.

As far as accidental shootings, I'd like to see some committed by CCW permit holders, not 'at home' accidents, as that doesn't apply.

Pete

[flacaltenn]

Pete:

I've only seen a couple stories like that in actual local newspapers. They are always buried on the obituary page.. And the larger papers and TV news don't usually replay those stories culled from the 'burbs. (although in Tenn, I occasionally see on TV, some sheriff congratulating a citizen for apprehending a perp). Pisses me off that most people don't get a daily dose of this... When it's so easy to find dozens of these nationwide every month.

These numbers below are also interesting clip from my political vault.. IT's old so the link might not work, but DOJ keeps running tabs on self-defense. (Numbers are about 1/2 of ALL self-defense with guns, because only about 1/2 are reported (study from More Guns - Less Crime) and that means that the deterrent figures (without actual use of the gun) are MUCH higher than the numbers below. (no discharge, no police report).


http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/hvfsdaft.txt

About three-fourths of the victims who used firearms for
self-defense did so during a crime of violence, 1987-92

Average annual number of victimizations
in which victims used firearms to defend
themselves or their property
________________________________________

The 3 columns below are Total, Attacked Offender, Threatened Offender
________________________________________

All crimes 82,500 30,600 51,900
Total violent crime 62,200 25,500 36,700

With injury 12,100 7,300 4,900
Without injury 50,000 18,200 31,800

Theft, burglary,
motor vehicle theft 20,300 5,100 15,200

[Combwork]

Remembering I come from a country where with extraordinarily few exceptions, anyone caught carrying a loaded gun in a public place would face a serious prison sentence, assuming it could be enforced, what would happen if right across all States the only people allowed to carry guns were law enforcers trained in the use of hand-guns?

[merrylander]

It would be a more peaceful place. The reason why the police in the UK rarely carried arms was the law. As you noted caught with a firearm would get you prison time. Caught with a firearm whilst commiting a crime got you real prison time. Most crooks were too smart to do that. Now that we have terrorists it is probably a different story.

[JJIII]

Originally Posted by Combwork

Remembering I come from a country where with extraordinarily few exceptions, anyone caught carrying a loaded gun in a public place would face a serious prison sentence, assuming it could be enforced, what would happen if right across all States the only people allowed to carry guns were law enforcers trained in the use of hand-guns?

Law abiding people would lose their guns and the law breakers would have a field day. They already face prison if using a gun during a crime.

[piece-itpete]

Indeed. And most concealed carry states do require some training.

Pete