"You're a True Patriot!" Patriotism, or Nationalism

[BlueStreak]

"Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all of the loathsome nonsense that that goes by the name of patriotism---how I passionately hate them all."
---Albert Einstein.

"When a whole nation is roaring Patriotism at the top of its voice, I am fain to explore the cleanliness of its hands and the purity of its heart."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson

"Patriotism is the conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it."
--George Bernard Shaw

But, I don't think any of these quotes truly expresses my thoughts on the current "patriotic" fever among some of my countrymen, which I regard more as "nationalism" anyhow, as this one;

"Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; Nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first."
--Charles de Gaulle

When I joined the Navy in 1982, it was as Robert E. Lee said of his decision to defend Virginia; "...to defend hearth and home.". (But not necessarily any political party, government or ideology.)

Patriotism, as de Gaulle described, is true patriotism as I see it. A love of ones people; family, friends, and countrymen, but not necessarily any specific ideology. Nationalism, on the other hand, a cancer, a tool used to stir the masses to some nefarious end.

Dave

[Combwork]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

"Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; Nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first."
--Charles de Gaulle

Dave

I have to agree, though through gritted teeth. His words read ok, but he took his "love of (his) own people" to extremes, especially where the English were concerned.

Maybe it's reciprocal; some people claim the English have been just a little bit jingoistic in the past, but they of course are wrong............... Pax Britannica. Park a large gunboat offshore then negotiate.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by Pukka Sahib

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."
- Samuel Johnson (April 7, 1775)

+1. This was one of my father's favorite sayings (and he was a career military officer, albeit a JAG and not a warrior, per se).

I sure wish the Dem's and responsible Republicans would shame those that use this jingoistic BS. Challenging someone else's patriotism due to differences of opinion on political matters is decidedly unpatriotic.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Combwork

I have to agree, though through gritted teeth. His words read ok, but he took his "love of (his) own people" to extremes, especially where the English were concerned.

Maybe it's reciprocal; some people claim the English have been just a little bit jingoistic in the past, but they of course are wrong............... Pax Britannica. Part a large gunboat offshore then negotiate.

I understand that. The quote was not meant as an endorsement of the man, so much as it was posted for the nature of its content.

Dave

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by finnbow

+1. This was one of my father's favorite sayings (and he was a career military officer, albeit a JAG and not a warrior, per se).

I sure wish the Dem's and responsible Republicans would shame those that use this jingoistic BS. Challenging someone else's patriotism due to differences of opinion on political matters is decidedly unpatriotic.

Sounds like your father was a wise man, Finn.

I doubt they ever will. The Dems because they seem slow and clumsy when it comes to reacting to such things, the flap over the name "job kiling" is a perfect example. And the GOP will certainly never speak out and jingoistic BS because jingoistic BS is the foundation of their electoral success.

Dave

[Charles]

I figger I'm just along for the ride. I'll leave the finger pointing and name calling to those who relish it so.

BTW, when I worked at the joint I didn't take the position in an effort to protect my family and friends from the criminal element...although I did one hell of a job as no one escaped on MY watch. I signed on for the most humble of reasons, I had bills to pay.

And while I did meet a few CO's who actually WANTED the job, in my estimation they were stark raving mad and should have never been hired in the first place.

Any one of them could cause more trouble than 100 convicts put together.

Chas

[merrylander]

Jingo Bells, Jingo Bells, Jingo all the way.
Oh what fun . . .

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Pukka Sahib

Patriotism is loyalty and devotion to one’s country, which is manifested in the faithful performance of one’s civic duty. Unhappily, there are many that equate patriotism with grandstand shouts and cheers and flag waiving, rather than fulfilling their responsibilities as citizens. True patriots are those that sacrifice themselves for the sake of their county; false patriots are those that would sacrifice their country for their own sake.

"Unhappily, there are many that equate patriotism with grandstand shouts and cheers and flag waiving, rather than fulfilling their responsibilities as citizens."

Correct. This would be more a modus operundi of nationalism, IMO. One being swept up in propaganda and led to believe he is superior in some way to others. Motivated by a hatred of "inferiors", and guided by purely self-serving goals rather than improvement of the human condition as a whole. "We are destined to rule the world, because we are better than everyone else. Therefore, our domination of inferior nations/peoples is our right."----Manifest Destiny?

Dave

[piece-itpete]

I read a great history of Greece with a focal on Athens a while back. I don't remember the author, but he had spent his life studying Greece and Rome.

He said, if you teach your children to question everything, they often end up believing in nothing (talking about Athens).

Patriotism can be used as a bad thing. However, love of country is no sin. I see a tendency to kinda sneer at the US by many of its' own citizens, and the kids are definately picking it up.

And there is no substitute for nations currently.

Pete