Working Class Republicans

[dmax99]

First post here,sometimes lurker.One thing that's been puzzling me is the working class republican.Can someone explain to me just what's in it for them.Just what do they hope to gain by trying to elect a republican for president.To me it seems that everything they do is designed to funnel money to the top.I'm in a working class situation and the people I encounter,their politics are are driven by racism more than anything else.And this was the case before Obama was the President.I wish they would get their heads out of their asses.

[finnbow]

Racism and resentment go a long way in building a political following.

[Oerets]

The hope that someday they to will be rich. Always hold out hope I guess. Or the good old American hatred of paying taxes since day one.



Barney

[bobabode]

Welcome DMax! Things need to be spelled out to the regular working stiff sometimes but mostly being weary and a little numb from doing the same old day in and day out leaves little left in the tank to get fired up with. I know that's the way I feel after hanging yet another set of kitchen cabinets or hanging a door in an out of square frame or clearing yet another drain. :( Funny how people are glad to see me but don't want to shake my calloused hand.:rolleyes:

Sad to say but it appears to me things will have to get worse to wake up us blue collars and the white collared desk jockeys to realizing that we're all Americans and also human beings no matter what background we come from.

[Boreas]

Until Reagan working class people were pretty much solidly Democratic but the Reagan campaign (which, significantly, kicked off in Philadelphia, Mississippi) and, later, his presidency ("Cadillac driving welfare queens") sowed the seeds of disaffection and racial resentment among the working class. These folks came to be known as "Reagan Democrats", now better known as just plain Republicans or, in many cases, Tea Partiers.

The racism that the Republicans since Reagan have nurtured boiled over with Obama's election. It's now absolutely overt and utterly mindless.

The Republicans, now emphatically a party of intolerance, racism and paranoia, worked this evil over the course of thirty years or more. I think it'll take a century to undo the damage, if indeed we ever can. Lincoln and TR would weep for their party and their country.

John

[finnbow]

Until Reagan working class people were pretty much solidly Democratic but the Reagan campaign (which, significantly, kicked off in Philadelphia, Mississippi) and, later, his presidency ("Cadillac driving welfare queens") sowed the seeds of disaffection and racial resentment among the working class. These folks came to be known as "Reagan Democrats", now better known as just plain Republicans or, in many cases, Tea Partiers.

The racism that the Republicans since Reagan have nurtured boiled over with Obama's election. It's now absolutely overt and utterly mindless.

The Republicans, now emphatically a party of intolerance, racism and paranoia, worked this evil over the course of thirty years or more. I think it'll take a century to undo the damage, if indeed we ever can. Lincoln and TR would weep for their party and their country.

John

While I completely agree with what you say, I have a hard time getting particularly warm & fuzzy with the Dem's either. A pox on both their houses, I say, but with a more virulent strain upon today's GOP.

[Boreas]

I have a hard time getting particularly warm & fuzzy with the Dem's either.

A party completely devoid of fecks. :D

John

[bobabode]

While I completely agree with what you say, I have a hard time getting particularly warm & fuzzy with the Dem's either. A pox on both their houses, I say, but with a more virulent strain upon today's GOP.

Mebbe the Dems'll get that strain that rots just the tip off instead of just killing 'em outright like the repub strain. I agree Finn they're all dirty but frying pan or into the fire is the choice this year.

[Oerets]

At least the Left is willing to reach across to the Right in the countries interests.



Barney

[finnbow]

A party completely devoid of fecks. :D

John

Indeed. Much less feck than desired.

[bhunter]

The racism that the Republicans since Reagan have nurtured boiled over with Obama's election. It's now absolutely overt and utterly mindless.

The Republicans, now emphatically a party of intolerance, racism and paranoia, worked this evil over the course of thirty years or more. I think it'll take a century to undo the damage, if indeed we ever can. Lincoln and TR would weep for their party and their country.

John

Funny, that's the way I feel about the democrats.:D

[BlueStreak]

I am a blue collar kinda guy, living in a red state. I'm well aquainted with quite a few working class Republicans, because I carry their weight and do most of their thinking for them every day. They are generally lazy and not very bright, but they have mastered the art of talking a good game, I gotta give'em that.

If you ask them for an opinion of themselves, which is the only thing they give freely, they'll tell you they have ALL of the answers. Then they proceed to fuck up everything they touch and blame it on someone else, while leaving the mess for guys like me to straighten out.

I yield the remainder of my time to the gentleman from Texas.

Dave

[merrylander]

Never could understand that myself, but after watching many, many people shoot themselves in the foot I guess it must just be a national pastime.

I would as soon confess to child molestation as admit to being a republican.

[BlueStreak]

First post here,sometimes lurker.One thing that's been puzzling me is the working class republican.Can someone explain to me just what's in it for them.Just what do they hope to gain by trying to elect a republican for president.To me it seems that everything they do is designed to funnel money to the top.I'm in a working class situation and the people I encounter,their politics are are driven by racism more than anything else.And this was the case before Obama was the President.I wish they would get their heads out of their asses.

As to the OP, I say this;

They get to go to their graves with the deep satisfation of knowing they busted their asses to help someone else get unbelievably rich, but have nothing to show for it themselves. You see, there is a great, manly and oh-so-patriotic sort of pride to be gleaned from not having a pot to piss in, but knowing you earned every bit of it. It truly is the great American way. I know this to be true, Mitt Romney told me so. And he's a really smart and wealthy businessman, so I do whatever he says...............

Dave

[piece-itpete]

Another working-reps-are-morons thread, great.

The Dems want the government to take care of everything. Of course, that means they need money, and their regulation makes everything more expensive, so actually being poor and Dem is shooting yourself in the foot.

As far as working stiffs getting a better shake from the Dems, only if you work for the government. Talk is cheap.

Pete

[merrylander]

Another working-reps-are-morons thread, great.

The Dems want the government to take care of everything. Of course, that means they need money, and their regulation makes everything more expensive, so actually being poor and Dem is shooting yourself in the foot.

As far as working stiffs getting a better shake from the Dems, only if you work for the government. Talk is cheap.

Pete

Let's see; working stiffs have not had a decent pay raise since 1999, that is somehow the government's fault, or the dems fault? All those corporationss can't be owned by dems, gotta be a few repubs in there.

Talk is indeed cheap that is why that is all we get from repub administrations

But if you love the Jack System by all means vote for the mittster.

[Boreas]

Never could understand that myself, but after watching many, many people shoot themselves in the foot I guess it must just be a national pastime.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paxk_LPmdMI

John

[merrylander]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paxk_lpmdmi

john

rotflmao

[noonereal]

First post here,sometimes lurker.One thing that's been puzzling me is the working class republican.Can someone explain to me just what's in it for them.Just what do they hope to gain by trying to elect a republican for president.To me it seems that everything they do is designed to funnel money to the top.I'm in a working class situation and the people I encounter,their politics are are driven by racism more than anything else.And this was the case before Obama was the President.I wish they would get their heads out of their asses.

The GOP sells itself as the party of the alpha male and that of course appeals to many as they want to be identified as such.

[noonereal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paxk_LPmdMI

John

video has been yanked :cool:

[Boreas]

The GOP sells itself as the party of the alpha male and that of course appeals to many as they want to be identified as such.

Read John Dean's "Conservatives Without Conscience".

video has been yanked :cool:

Search Youtube for "I just fucking shot myself".

John

[noonereal]

search youtube for "i just fucking shot myself".

John

lmao!!!

[Rex E.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paxk_LPmdMI

John

Tosh had this guy in for "Web Redemption". Pretty funny if you've not seen it :D

[dmax99]

Yeah, we're witnessing all the jobs the Bush "Jobs Creators" are creating now that their tax cut didn't get to expire....

[beej]

I know a few working class Republicans; I'm an independent, btw. Couple of common characteristics that I've seen: some are gun owners who are devoted NRA members; conservative by nature with some racist views; seemingly focused on the tax issue; disgruntled w/government. Yeah, I know, really insightful observations.

[icenine]

As the baby boomers age and see the manufacturing base of the nation in decline I think their anger is focused against what they perceive as big government wasting their money and I think they sort of take it out on Democrats because they feel that party is the one guilty of big social welfare programs, favoring illegal immigrants, etc. And they many are upset with the amount of foreign aid. I remember a conversation with an unemployed worker in Ohio who was upset with the aid we sent to Haiti after the earthquake there. At the same time these same individuals really want their social security and Medicare...naturally who doesn't right? Big Government is bad as long as it is for someone else, generally speaking.
But if you look at the Republican Party they basically do the same thing. They support big government ....the military industrial complex that feeds places like Virginia, California, Florida and plus all those Army and Air Force bases across the middle of the country. The Republicans give a nod and a wink to illegal immigration because they know certain powerful business interests need the cheap labor. They send foreign aid overseas all the time to pro- American nations (Dems do this too). They do stuff without paying for it like the wars in Iraq and Afganistan. But for some reason it does not stick to the Republicans and it is sort of ok when they do it.
There is much anger on the right about government workers. At the Federal level the one person responsible for increasing Federal Employment was George W. Bsuh....he did it on steroids too. Because of the wars there was big increase in the hiring of defense contractors and DOD civilian (permanent government employess). I know ...I am one of them. But your average Republican voter who hates big government does not see this. And Obama has actually overseen the departure of thousands of DOD contractors.

[bhunter]

I know a few working class Republicans; I'm an independent, btw. Couple of common characteristics that I've seen: some are gun owners who are devoted NRA members; conservative by nature with some racist views; seemingly focused on the tax issue; disgruntled w/government. Yeah, I know, really insightful observations.

Those generalizations are just as applicable to democrats.

[Boreas]

I know a few working class Republicans; I'm an independent, btw. Couple of common characteristics that I've seen: some are gun owners who are devoted NRA members; conservative by nature with some racist views; seemingly focused on the tax issue; disgruntled w/government. Yeah, I know, really insightful observations.

Those generalizations are just as applicable to democrats.

Not really, at least not in terms of numbers or degree.

There are far fewer Democrats who, though they may own guns, are "into them" and into the pro-gun politics that surround them. I'd say there are damn few Democrats who give the NRA a dime, even if it's only membership dues.

To be sure, there are "conservative Democrats" but that's a relative term when placing them within the overall spectrum of Democrats. Place those same "conservatives" within the context of Republicans and you...... can't.

Racism isn't the sole province of Republicans but, of the two major parties, only the Republicans have overtly racist goals. That makes the Republican Party the default "home" of racists in the US.

To say that Democrats are as tax-obsessed as the Republicans, particularly the Tea Party variety, is simply silly. It really doesn't deserve further comment.

John

[bhunter]

As the baby boomers age and see the manufacturing base of the nation in decline I think their anger is focused against what they perceive as big government wasting their money and I think they sort of take it out on Democrats because they feel that party is the one guilty of big social welfare programs, favoring illegal immigrants, etc. And they many are upset with the amount of foreign aid. I remember a conversation with an unemployed worker in Ohio who was upset with the aid we sent to Haiti after the earthquake there. At the same time these same individuals really want their social security and Medicare...naturally who doesn't right? Big Government is bad as long as it is for someone else, generally speaking.
But if you look at the Republican Party they basically do the same thing. They support big government ....the military industrial complex that feeds places like Virginia, California, Florida and plus all those Army and Air Force bases across the middle of the country. The Republicans give a nod and a wink to illegal immigration because they know certain powerful business interests need the cheap labor. They send foreign aid overseas all the time to pro- American nations (Dems do this too). They do stuff without paying for it like the wars in Iraq and Afganistan. But for some reason it does not stick to the Republicans and it is sort of ok when they do it.
There is much anger on the right about government workers. At the Federal level the one person responsible for increasing Federal Employment was George W. Bsuh....he did it on steroids too. Because of the wars there was big increase in the hiring of defense contractors and DOD civilian (permanent government employess). I know ...I am one of them. But your average Republican voter who hates big government does not see this. And Obama has actually overseen the departure of thousands of DOD contractors.

The above is a very nice summation Icenine. Of course, I, like most libertarians, argue that the DOD expenditures and expansion are a required function of the federal government whereas the myriad of ever expanding social programs are not. That does not necessarily mean that DOD expenditures need to expand without bound. I'm also fairly certain that without 911 the Bush expansion would have been much smaller. Obama thinks that the role of government is unbounded as demonstrated by the selection of his executive appointees. Since Obama lacks an academic paper trail in which he expounded his positions, one must look at the papers by his appointees to get a feel for his positions wrt the role of government and its interactions with the citizens. That leads to the very predictable expanded role of government that we now witness.

[bhunter]

Not really, at least not in terms of numbers or degree.


The point is that anecdotal evidence is worthless. The OP said "I know" and "some." I've also known "some" democrats that have the same generalized characteristics.


Racism isn't the sole province of Republicans but, of the two major parties, only the Republicans have overtly racist goals. That makes the Republican Party the default "home" of racists in the US.


What overt racist goals?



To say that Democrats are as tax-obsessed as the Republicans, particularly the Tea Party variety, is simply silly. It really doesn't deserve further comment.


I agree with your Tea Party statement since that is a primary goal of the TP, however, I still think that most people are for lower taxes and not higher taxes. Democratic leaders are only tax obsessed when it's about raising taxes on someone else, particularly the rich.

[mac mini]

Racism and resentment go a long way in building a political following.

It took Hitler right to the top.

[Boreas]

The point is that anecdotal evidence is worthless. The OP said "I know" and "some." I've also known "some" democrats that have the same generalized characteristics.

Your stated point was that beej's observations were equally true of Democrats. You were wrong. I guess that's why you're revising it now.

What overt racist goals?

Immigration policy and voter ID laws to name only two.

I agree with your Tea Party statement since that is a primary goal of the TP, however, I still think that most people are for lower taxes and not higher taxes. Democratic leaders are only tax obsessed when it's about raising taxes on someone else, particularly the rich.

I think you'll find that there's ample polling data indicating that Democrats are willing to pay higher taxes as a means of funding some of the programs they favor. Compare this to the Republican insistence that taxes must remain at current levels or, preferably, lower and the way to achieve this is through defunding social, environmental and infrastructure programs.

John

[BlueStreak]

Yeah, we're witnessing all the jobs the Bush "Jobs Creators" are creating now that their tax cut didn't get to expire....

Excellent point and one that I have brought up on occasion. Another point to ponder is this; Okay, so let's say the only way we can induce the so-called "job creators" to actually create jobs is to give them tax cuts. At some point even conservatives would find further cuts to be impossible.---Then what?

[BlueStreak]

I know a few working class Republicans; I'm an independent, btw. Couple of common characteristics that I've seen: some are gun owners who are devoted NRA members; conservative by nature with some racist views; seemingly focused on the tax issue; disgruntled w/government. Yeah, I know, really insightful observations.

Sounds about right. I would add that many are so upset about their taxes because they think it's all just going to pay for Section 8 housing and foodstamps "up north" anyways. Now, you and I know that it isn't just black folks in big, northern cities who receive those things. But, point out to a working class Republican that a huge number of welfare recipients are his jug band luvin' kin folk in places like Appallachia and the Deep South and watch his head explode.

Why?

Dave

[icenine]

The above is a very nice summation Icenine. Of course, I, like most libertarians, argue that the DOD expenditures and expansion are a required function of the federal government whereas the myriad of ever expanding social programs are not. That does not necessarily mean that DOD expenditures need to expand without bound. I'm also fairly certain that without 911 the Bush expansion would have been much smaller. Obama thinks that the role of government is unbounded as demonstrated by the selection of his executive appointees. Since Obama lacks an academic paper trail in which he expounded his positions, one must look at the papers by his appointees to get a feel for his positions wrt the role of government and its interactions with the citizens. That leads to the very predictable expanded role of government that we now witness.

Thanks Bhunter....I must say however that the military expansion is a social program as well.....just look at the Naval Hospital across from Balboa Park and see what that represents. It is both a huge employer for the area plus gives outs socialized medicine to thousands. And we are not even talking about the other Navy and USMC bases in the area.
I do not know much about Obama' educational publishing. In general those pursuing academic careers generally publish in scholarly journals after they get their doctorates so as to gain a tenure track professorship, which is really hard to do nowadays. Obama was a lawyer and as we can see was more interested in community activism and politics. So publishing articles in journals may not have been pertinent to him. And he may have felt it better not to publish anything that could be used against him later on if he knew he was going to be in politics. The papers he did write during law school would be his personal property, just like anyone else's old homework.

[BlueStreak]

Thanks Bhunter....I must say however that the military expansion is a social program as well.....just look at the Naval Hospital across from Balboa Park and see what that represents. It is both a huge employer for the area plus gives outs socialized medicine to thousands. And we are not even talking about the other Navy and USMC bases in the area.
I do not know much about Obama' educational publishing. In general those pursuing academic careers generally publish in scholarly journals after they get their doctorates so as to gain a tenure track professorship, which is really hard to do nowadays. Obama was a lawyer and as we can see was more interested in community activism and politics. So publishing articles in journals may not have been pertinent to him. And he may have felt it better not to publish anything that could be used against him later on if he knew he was going to be in politics. The papers he did write during law school would be his personal property, just like anyone else's old homework.

Yep. I recently took a sunset cruise around the harbor on the American Rover.
At one point we cruise past the Portsmouth Naval Hospital, and the captain describes it to us as "....one of, if not the largest non-private hospitals in the world." And it is MASSIVE, with the main building being about twelve-fifteen floors.

And then, there are the other military bases here, all four branches + the Coast Guard, in Hampton Roads, representing tens of thousands of both military and civil service jobs. We also have NASA and Jefferson Labs, Newport News Shipbuilding (Northrup Grumman), BAE Systems Shipyard and all of the others that do DoD work..... Yet, this area is FULL of wingnuts who want the federal government "...completely OUT of our lives.":confused:

Ahhhh, the short-sightedness. Ya gotta love it.

Dave

[beej]

Those generalizations are just as applicable to democrats.

Actually they're not generalizations but characteristics of people I actually know, some of whom I count as friends. Not always successful but I try not to engage in stereotyping.

[merrylander]

The largest recent growth in government jobs was under George W. Bush, so stop with the big government BS already.

[piece-itpete]

Reforming immigration and securing polls is overty racist? Fie, I say.

Bush had 9-11 to deal with, something the left would like everyone to forget.

Pete

[beej]

No question that Bush had some serious issues with which to conted. While I disagreed with some of the measures that he took, he was President at a very tough time and needed to act. What concerned me then and still does is that he chose to contend with those issues without paying for it and, like it or not, doubled the national debt in the process.

[piece-itpete]

I understand, but right now the left in the US is pilloring Europe for austerity vs stimulation spending. The US market was on the brink after 9-11 - should he have gone for austerity?

I wonder what the national debt is now.

Pete

[dmax99]

It would certainly be in better shape had Bush & Cheney chosen to not to wage an unnecessary war against the thug from Iraq.I know that this topic has prolly been flogged to death 'round here,but there was a huge cost of dollars & lives.

[bobabode]

It would certainly be in better shape had Bush & Cheney chosen to not to wage an unnecessary war against the thug from Iraq.I know that this topic has prolly been flogged to death 'round here,but there was a huge cost of dollars & lives.

They shoulda been looking for those WMDs in Pete's trunk.LOL:rolleyes:

[bobabode]

Don't shoot any fireworks at the Cuyahoga tomorrow night Pete. You know what happened the last time!:rolleyes:

[Boreas]

Don't shoot any fireworks at the Cuyahoga tomorrow night Pete. You know what happened the last time!:rolleyes:

Did Pete do that?!?!

John

[merrylander]

I agree with your Tea Party statement since that is a primary goal of the TP, however, I still think that most people are for lower taxes and not higher taxes. Democratic leaders are only tax obsessed when it's about raising taxes on someone else, particularly the rich.

We are currently witnessing the wonders of private industry and lower taxes. SO far four people have died here in Maryland because the privatly held power companies refuse to bury power lines.. As I type this there are still close to 50,000 homes without electricity and air conditioning. We are effectively living in Bahgdad on the Ptomac.

During the 13 years I lived in Nepean Township just outside Ottawa the was a single power failure. A transformer the size of an average bedroom blew out. They had an equivalent transformer on a flatbed trailer in place an running in 12 hours. The majority of power lines there were buried. Ontario Hydro is (or was) a publicly owned corporation. The people in New York are only too happy Ontario Hydro is so efficient and are no doubt delighted with that big cable running along the bottom of Lake Ontario or they would be in the dark.

I do not begrudge the taxes we pay and just maybe the rich are wishing they had paid their share. The rich neighbourhoods of DC that have, oops had, all those trees are still roasting in the dark.

I still dream of the day when this country will come to its senses and recognize that its greatest natural resource is its citizens and begin to husband that resource. Those old folks living on SS are the ones whose taxes built the schools and paved the roads.

[merrylander]

Reforming immigration and securing polls is overty racist? Fie, I say.

Bush had 9-11 to deal with, something the left would like everyone to forget.

Pete

So far I have seen little reform of immigration, but I have seen several attempts at a poll tax.

He did have it to deal with and he screwed up big time, Let Bin Lade escape into Pakistan and started a stupid war in Iraq for noo good reason.:rolleyes:

[finnbow]

Reforming immigration and securing polls is overty racist? Fie, I say.

Bush had 9-11 to deal with, something the left would like everyone to forget.

Pete

It seems only fair that he had to deal with issues associated with 9-11 considering he ignored all the warnings of an imminent attack.

[piece-itpete]

He wasn't the only one. What did Sandy Burgle?

They shoulda been looking for those WMDs in Pete's trunk.LOL:rolleyes:

Hey, tell them coppers to say outta my trunk!! :eek:

Did Pete do that?!?!

John

Sad but true. 'Everything burns' :)

http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/4c87a6fe257bf63f4f6bd5c3aa90364d?s=96&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a 11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D96&r=PG

Pete

[olson_jr]

First post here,sometimes lurker.One thing that's been puzzling me is the working class republican.Can someone explain to me just what's in it for them.Just what do they hope to gain by trying to elect a republican for president.To me it seems that everything they do is designed to funnel money to the top.I'm in a working class situation and the people I encounter,their politics are are driven by racism more than anything else.And this was the case before Obama was the President.I wish they would get their heads out of their asses.

Remind me to give you a copy next listening session.

http://www.amazon.com/Deer-Hunting-Jesus-Dispatches-Americas/dp/030733936X

[finnbow]

Remind me to give you a copy next listening session.

http://www.amazon.com/Deer-Hunting-Jesus-Dispatches-Americas/dp/030733936X

Good read. I read it and recommended it to Bluestreak, among others friends.

[dmax99]

Definetly looks like an interesting read....

[merrylander]

I agree with your Tea Party statement since that is a primary goal of the TP, however, I still think that most people are for lower taxes and not higher taxes. Democratic leaders are only tax obsessed when it's about raising taxes on someone else, particularly the rich.

We are the least taxed industrialized nation in the world. We are also the nation that refuses to look after its greatest resource - its people. All in the name of business -what's good for Exxon is good for America. We are also the cheapest bunch of whiners in the world.:rolleyes

[BlueStreak]

Remind me to give you a copy next listening session.

http://www.amazon.com/Deer-Hunting-Jesus-Dispatches-Americas/dp/030733936X

Yes, excellent book.

BTW. If you're not conservative, you're a pussy who hates America. No one wants to be known as such in such a small town, now do we? Git with the program or be ostracized from the hunt club!

Get the picture?

Dave

[bhunter]

We are the least taxed industrialized nation in the world. We are also the nation that refuses to look after its greatest resource - its people. All in the name of business -what's good for Exxon is good for America. We are also the cheapest bunch of whiners in the world.:rolleyes

I agree we're lower than the social oriented European countries, but that's not a bad thing IMHO. How about Japan, Korea, Australia, and even good 'ol Canada?

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/background/numbers/international.cfm


One might look at the effectiveness of each additional dollar, marginality, across countries. I suspect there is not a linear relationship. Every dollar to govenment must come from somewhere else. There is an opportunity cost for each dollar taken by the government from the economy. Obviously, where the level of taxation is depends on what you want from government.

[finnbow]

I agree we're lower than the social oriented European countries, but that's not a bad thing IMHO. How about Japan, Korea, Australia, and even good 'ol Canada?

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/background/numbers/international.cfm


One might look at the effectiveness of each additional dollar, marginality, across countries. I suspect there is not a linear relationship. Every dollar to govenment must come from somewhere else. There is an opportunity cost for each dollar taken by the government from the economy. Obviously, where the level of taxation is depends on what you want from government.

The trouble is that Americans want a social safety net and fewer wars. The GOP seems to be offering the opposite.

[barbara]

The trouble is that Americans want a social safety net and fewer wars. The GOP seems to be offering the opposite.


Yes, exactly! But, they wrap it all up in pretty paper with a bow and the gulible amoungst us falls for it............
:confused:

[BlueStreak]

The trouble is that Americans want a social safety net and fewer wars. The GOP seems to be offering the opposite.

Don't be so sure about that. I think so many of us have drunk deeply of the teabagger Kool-Aid, that we'll have to find out what that world is really all about, before they realize how badly they've effed up...............:(

Regards,
Dave

[BlueStreak]

This thread reminds me of my sweet sister and her husband, rolling around in a big RV, touring the country on publicly funded highways and publicly funded parks........on SS and a GM/UAW pension with health bennies negotiated by that union and recently protected by a Democratic administration...............thinking the government, and in particular the Democratic Party.......................has screwed them.

That's your typical Blue Collar Republican.

Regards,
Dave

[mpholland]

WTF do you all have to be at the extreme poles on politics? I like the idea of social security and health care. I also like the idea of smaller government. The government (on both sides) is full of tactics to get more money to bloat itself. We have public unions (from federal to local) with guaranteed pensions that are eating up over 1/3 of all moneys taken in. Some quickly approaching half. We have schools that get funding from property taxes. Once upon a time that was enough. They have pillaged surpluses and then threaten schools, fire, police and other necessary programs to get more money instead of threatening mass transit, or pay raises, or some other program that can wait for a better economy. We can't afford to feed people, but we can afford to give billions to banks, auto companies, and green battery corporations that go bankrupt. We can say GM is a proud American company that should be a model of business. Gives us a good excuse to bail them out, even though 2/3 of their jobs are in other countries. Oregon used to have a great economic resource in timber. The Democrats and environmentalists have pretty much killed that. We import the majority of our raw timber even though reforestation has given us about 10 billion more board feet of timber than we had in the 50's. Senseless beureaucracy is what is killing our nation, not a single party. Our government is supposed to provide us with a national defense, mail, a currency system, and protection of our individual rights. What happened there?

[bobabode]

WTF do you all have to be at the extreme poles on politics? I like the idea of social security and health care. I also like the idea of smaller government. The government (on both sides) is full of tactics to get more money to bloat itself. We have public unions (from federal to local) with guaranteed pensions that are eating up over 1/3 of all moneys taken in. Some quickly approaching half. We have schools that get funding from property taxes. Once upon a time that was enough. They have pillaged surpluses and then threaten schools, fire, police and other necessary programs to get more money instead of threatening mass transit, or pay raises, or some other program that can wait for a better economy. We can't afford to feed people, but we can afford to give billions to banks, auto companies, and green battery corporations that go bankrupt. We can say GM is a proud American company that should be a model of business. Gives us a good excuse to bail them out, even though 2/3 of their jobs are in other countries. Oregon used to have a great economic resource in timber. The Democrats and environmentalists have pretty much killed that. We import the majority of our raw timber even though reforestation has given us about 10 billion more board feet of timber than we had in the 50's. Senseless beureaucracy is what is killing our nation, not a single party. Our government is supposed to provide us with a national defense, mail, a currency system, and protection of our individual rights. What happened there?

MP it's a natural reaction by the Democrats after having the Replutocrats engage in a deeply duplicitous all out attack on the institutions that we think are nececesary to a responsible and caring society. I won't nitpick over your other gripes but I think all of our sources of news are compromised by either money or politics, aka bread and circuses, by their respective board of directors. With the exception of NPR and PBS those news outlets whether they be liberal The New York Times or the loonytunes moonie Washington Times, they are profit driven and so suspect.

[mpholland]

After reading my post again I would like to say that I don't mean to pick on any party in particular. It seems to me that both parties are so busy blaming and antagonizing each other that the real problems and solutions are being overlooked. The government overspends...period. We need to cut the frivolous spending, but instead threaten to cut necessities while wasting money elsewhere right and left.

[bobabode]

After reading my post again I would like to say that I don't mean to pick on any party in particular. It seems to me that both parties are so busy blaming and antagonizing each other that the real problems and solutions are being overlooked. The government overspends...period. We need to cut the frivolous spending, but instead threaten to cut necessities while wasting money elsewhere right and left.

I concur and from what I've actually heard from Obama's lips he agrees. "Leaner and meaner" is how he put it. There's a buttload of work to do on our flaking infrastructure and the Republican congress won't entertain any measures to address it. Allowing a vote on the Jobs Bill without their added pork is not going to happen unless their constituents tell them to. Most of us here can compose a halfway decent letter, maybe our Representatives in the House are just waiting for a nudge to do the right thing?

Compromise is a nasty pill for both sides but it is the only way to get the neccessary work done. My biggest fear is that the forces of industry decide that another big war is how we get the economy overheated again.

[merrylander]

I have pointed this simple fact out several times; Google of Bing Lewis Powell, read abouut his memo to the Chamberpot of Commerce. Look up his voting record when in SCOTUS.

You will see where this country has been handed to the corporations, and now that the Robert's Court has declared them to be people, we are really in for it.

The Chamberpot of Commerce is a greater danger to this nation than any gang of terrorists.

[wgrr]

He wasn't the only one. What did Sandy Burgle?



Hey, tell them coppers to say outta my trunk!! :eek:



Sad but true. 'Everything burns' :)

http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/4c87a6fe257bf63f4f6bd5c3aa90364d?s=96&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a 11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D96&r=PG

Pete

Don't worry the coppers are too busy shooting themselves in the foot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmRN00KbCr8

[merrylander]

I agree we're lower than the social oriented European countries, but that's not a bad thing IMHO. How about Japan, Korea, Australia, and even good 'ol Canada?

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/background/numbers/international.cfm



Well good ol Canada does manage to look after its people unlike here and they must be doing summat right considering where their dollar stands at the moment. And before anyone starts pointing out links critical of SinglePayer let me forewarn you that I have relative all across that country who will yell BS. I suspect most of those article are funded by Big Pharma and the AMA.

Every Canadian gets the old age pension at 65. If the pension is all you have there is a nearly equal supplement. If you make a lot of money they take it all back in taxes, eliminating all those assinine means tests.

Come tax time they fill out one simple form and pay one taxe. From that the Internal Revenue department apportions, healthcare, provincial income tax, etc. A tax accountant would have a hard time making a living there just from individuals.

See there are efficient ways of running a government, but I guess that does not fit with American Exceptionalism, so we will continue along our merry way toward the Balkan States of America. With States vying with each other to see who can screw who the most.

[Bigerik]

Having lived both medical systems, the main reason I moved back to Canada was because the US system blows, by comparison. And yes, while I was down there, I had what was considered to be "good" insurance.

[merrylander]

Having lived both medical systems, the main reason I moved back to Canada was because the US system blows, by comparison. And yes, while I was down there, I had what was considered to be "good" insurance.

They all tell us our insurance is excellent, it bloody well should be for $11,000 a year. But the way things are done still sucks bigtime.:rolleyes:

[mpholland]

I was told when I was younger that my mortgage would probably be my biggest bill. Health insurance costs more. Now add SS, Medicare, FICA, state sales and income taxes and I am not sure that Canada's taxes can be a whole lot higher.

[icenine]

WTF do you all have to be at the extreme poles on politics? I like the idea of social security and health care. I also like the idea of smaller government. Our government is supposed to provide us with a national defense, mail, a currency system, and protection of our individual rights. What happened there?

You cannot have national defense, social security, health care and the other things you mention without a large national government.

Have you ever travelled outside of the USA?

[Boreas]

I was told when I was younger that my mortgage would probably be my biggest bill. Health insurance costs more. Now add SS, Medicare, FICA, state sales and income taxes and I am not sure that Canada's taxes can be a whole lot higher.

But you don't actually know.

John

[merrylander]

I was told when I was younger that my mortgage would probably be my biggest bill. Health insurance costs more. Now add SS, Medicare, FICA, state sales and income taxes and I am not sure that Canada's taxes can be a whole lot higher.

When I first came down here on comparable salaries Canada's Income Tax was higher, but it included everything federal, provincial, medical. So when you added in Medicare FICA and state they equalled out.

[mpholland]

But you don't actually know.

John

I suppose if I knew everything I would never need to go online.

[piece-itpete]

I concur and from what I've actually heard from Obama's lips he agrees.....

Obviously ;)

http://www.usdebtclock.org/


Don't worry the coppers are too busy shooting themselves in the foot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmRN00KbCr8


LMAO!!!

Pete

[ebacon]

Remind me to give you a copy next listening session.

http://www.amazon.com/Deer-Hunting-Jesus-Dispatches-Americas/dp/030733936X

I picked up this book after this thread and am reading it now. It's interesting that it was written in 2006 and completely predicted the mortgage collapse. The author goes into detail how hard rednecks were getting screwed in the ass when buying mobile and modular homes and he knew it was not sustainable.

I'm sick of weasel-worded businessmen saying that no one can predict what will happen. I predict other people will too and start chasing those weasels into thier gated communites.

[BlueStreak]

I picked up this book after this thread and am reading it now. It's interesting that it was written in 2006 and completely predicted the mortgage collapse. The author goes into detail how hard rednecks were getting screwed in the ass when buying mobile and modular homes and he knew it was not sustainable.

I'm sick of weasel-worded businessmen saying that no one can predict what will happen. I predict other people will too and start chasing those weasels into thier gated communites.

They say that no one can predict what will happen because they don't want you trying. You might just figure out what they're up to.:rolleyes:

Regards,
Dave

[wgrr]

I just watched the "I just fucking shot myself one year later" video. The idiot, who is very lucky he did not kill himself in the original video, reaches around to extract his Kimber carry II 1911 that was obviously tucked into his rear waist band. The hammer is fully cocked as he pulls it out to state he does not blame the gun He is lucky he did not shoot is ass off. He is a walking example of what not to do with a gun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEuBXWujeYQ

He needs to put on his deputy dog police badge and shoot his head off when he quick draws his "nine" from an upward facing quick draw shoulder holster. The gene pool would thank him.

I may be a liberal/independent but, I love my guns. My dad taught me how to handle a gun the right way. I actually have a quick draw shoulder holster for my .380/9mm short Belgium made Browning semi-automatic pistol. I also have a cc permit. Another anti-gun liberal myth busted.

[Boreas]

Darwin failed us on this one. What a maroon!

Or should that be "what a moran"?

John

[wgrr]

I picked up this book after this thread and am reading it now. It's interesting that it was written in 2006 and completely predicted the mortgage collapse. The author goes into detail how hard rednecks were getting screwed in the ass when buying mobile and modular homes and he knew it was not sustainable.

I'm sick of weasel-worded businessmen saying that no one can predict what will happen. I predict other people will too and start chasing those weasels into thier gated communites.

Sounds like an interesting book.

I live in a redneck state and mobile homes and double wides (modular homes) are common here. It is truly a scam.

The NOLA Katrina mobile homes were a huge disaster. They never made it there because they were "poisonous" They were made to the same standards any mobile home is. They hauled thousands of them out of the infamous Mena, AR last year and people paid for them after the BUSH administration paid huge amounts of money to have them built. They were no more dangerous than your normal mobile mansion. They just wanted to create a money making deal for donating buddies here in Arkansas. They never intended to transport them to NOLA.

[mpholland]

I may be a liberal/independent but, I love my guns. My dad taught me how to handle a gun the right way. I actually have a quick draw shoulder holster for my .380/9mm short Belgium made Browning semi-automatic pistol. I also have a cc permit. Another anti-gun liberal myth busted.

According to some polls liberal gun ownership is on the rise. Either that or they are getting less afraid to admit it.

[wgrr]

Darwin failed us on this one. What a maroon!

Or should that be "what a moran"?

John

Moran is the new accepted spelling. What do you expect from people that think a T-Rex actually had an English saddle fitted for it so George Washington could ride it into battle. The reptilian brain is amazing and still on display today in the tbagger party.

[Boreas]

According to some polls liberal gun ownership is on the rise. Either that or they are getting less afraid to admit it.

It's to protect us from Teabaggers. ;)

Seriously, I think it's because a lot of reformed conservatives still have their guns.

John

[Boreas]

Moran is the new accepted spelling. What do you expect from people that think a T-Rex actually had an English saddle fitted for it so George Washington could ride it into battle. The reptilian brain is amazing and still on display today in the tbagger party.

English saddles are for pansies. Real men ride T Rex with a Mexican saddle all trimmed in silver and braided latigo.

John

[wgrr]

According to some polls liberal gun ownership is on the rise. Either that or they are getting less afraid to admit it.

I have never been afraid to admit it. I have been a gun enthusiast since my dad took me out too shot his Ruger Blackhawk .22 cal six shooter at age six. I did not get to shoot the Colt 1911 until I was eight.

I shot competition skeet and trap for years until I had rotator cuff reattachment surgery in 1995. Sadly I sold my two Browning superposed Belgium made 20 gauge shotguns and a 1959 Browning light 12 gauge shotgun. My right shoulder can't take it any more, and the left shoulder I tore up in 1977 can't either. :mad:

Today I prefer to spend my money on audio gear. I have too many liberal friends that own a lot of nice guns to keep me happy. Going to an indoor range this weekend, as a matter of fact, to put a few rounds through a couple of nice vintage Luger's.

[wgrr]

English saddles are for pansies. Real men ride T Rex with a Mexican saddle all trimmed in silver and braided latigo.

John

Ever tried to fox hunt or play polo with a western or Mexican saddle. It is rack city for men or a groin kick for women. My mom and dad were accomplished horsemen (horse riders?). They both fox hunted at the club next to our property in PA when I was a kid.

I loved watching the same fox outwit the beagles every time. No killing of the fox, just good natured fun that resulted in a few broken bones for the adults; usually the nose. There were a lot of eight foot stone fences, built before the revolutionary war, to jump over.

My dad was a "madman" working for N.W. Ayer & Sons advertising agency in Philly at the time. He made more than I do, today, by a few thousand dollars in the early 60's. I guess that was "rich" in those days. Today it is barely middle class.

Times have changed a lot.

[Boreas]

Ever tried to fox hunt or play polo with a western or Mexican saddle. It is rack city for men or a groin kick for women. My mom and dad were accomplished horsemen (horse riders?). They both fox hunted at the club next to our property in PA when I was a kid.

I loved watching the same fox outwit the beagles every time. No killing of the fox, just good natured fun that resulted in a few broken bones for the adults; usually the nose. There were a lot of eight foot stone fences, built before the revolutionary war, to jump over.

My dad was a "madman" working for N.W. Ayer & Sons advertising agency in Philly at the time. He made more than I do, today, by a few thousand dollars in the early 60's. I guess that was "rich" in those days. Today it is barely middle class.

Times have changed a lot.

Oh, believe me, I know! Western or Mexican saddles are dangerous to your reproductive health! I grew up to the north of Baltimore where fox hunting, polo, steeplechases and point-to-point racing is huge, not to mention thoroughbred racing. I learned English growing up and then, when I got a job on a ranch in Colorado, had to unlearn it. :)

John

[wgrr]

Oh, believe me, I know! Western or Mexican saddles are dangerous to your reproductive health! I grew up to the north of Baltimore where fox hunting, polo, steeplechases and point-to-point racing is huge, not to mention thoroughbred racing. I learned English growing up and then, when I got a job on a ranch in Colorado, had to unlearn it. :)

John

Dad played polo and raised polo ponies. He also raised thoroughbreds with his best friend. I went by that area a couple of years ago and sadly all the open space is now housing subdivisions. No room to drive hacks there any more. :(

[JJIII]

You two need to hook up with Ann Romney.:D

[BlueStreak]

I own exactly zero guns.........because I'm afraid I would enjoy killing people.

Regards,
Dave

[merrylander]

According to some polls liberal gun ownership is on the rise. Either that or they are getting less afraid to admit it.

We are considering getting two 9mm simply for protection, it is not a very nice world out there any more.

With all due respect to the fox hunters a local crew sent ther hounds through our woods some years back when we still had our Sheltie/Spitz mix. They were firmly informed that running their hounds on our property was verbooten.

[piece-itpete]

I've got an old book by Nye & Riley that has a bit on foxhunting, it's hilarious.

Here it is! God Bless the internet. Got a minute, it starts on page 46.

http://books.google.com/books?id=xiNAAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=nye+%26+riley&hl=en&sa=X&ei=vyzLUNrpLpKN0QGu2YCYCw&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA

'When you step on his tail he is said to be in full cry' lol.

Losta other good stuff in there too.

You two need to hook up with Ann Romney.:D

I own exactly zero guns.........because I'm afraid I would enjoy killing people.

Regards,
Dave

BAM!

Pete

[Boreas]

Dad played polo and raised polo ponies. He also raised thoroughbreds with his best friend. I went by that area a couple of years ago and sadly all the open space is now housing subdivisions. No room to drive hacks there any more. :(

Still possible in Baltimore, Harford and Cecil Counties. There's still that unwritten rule there where you can ride or drive across your neighbors' land as long as you close the gate. There are still the full schedule of spring point to point races and there are still the Fair Hill Races near Rising Sun.

What would you expect from a state where the official sport is jousting? ;)

John