We Will Never, Ever, Ever, Have a Conversation About Race in America

[VanishingPoi]

There’s a part of the speech that is profoundly difficult to even read, in light of Ferguson:

These are people going around stealing Coca Cola. People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake! Then we all run out and are outraged, “The cops shouldn’t have shot him.” What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand?
How can one not read this without thinking of the folks who have attempted to rationalize Michael Brown’s death, on the grounds that he somehow had it coming because he allegedly stole cigars from a convenience store?

I can’t help wondering if Cosby regrets having delivered that speech—if he regrets the fact that he unintentionally gave some Americans a rationale to excuse violence committed against blacks.

I thought about this during the Trayvon Martin-George Zimmerman controversy, when Fox News Channel personality Geraldo Rivera suggested that Martin’s clothing played a role in his death:

When you, when you see a kid walking…when you see a kid walking down the street, particularly a dark-skinned kid like my son Cruz, who I constantly yelled at when he was going out wearing a damn hoodie or those pants around his ankles. Take that hood off, people look at you and they — what do they think? What’s the instant identification, what’s the instant association?

Read More... (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2014_08/we_will_never_ever_ever_have_a051799.php#3)

[Rajoo]

Another viewpoint here from the very conservative Pat Buchanan. Just adding to the dialog, not forming or crafting an opinion.

http://humanevents.com/2013/07/19/black-americas-real-problem-isnt-white-racism/

I do wonder though as to why so many black teenagers dress the way they do, listen to hip-hop, etc. Is it that they do not know this leads to a dead end or are they products of their environment. What role do the black preachers play or are they all like Jackson, Sharpton and White? (self serving demagouges)

[finnbow]

Another viewpoint here from the very conservative Pat Buchanan. Just adding to the dialog, not forming or crafting an opinion.

http://humanevents.com/2013/07/19/black-americas-real-problem-isnt-white-racism/

I do wonder though as to why so many black teenagers dress the way they do, listen to hip-hop, etc. Is it that they do not know this leads to a dead end or are they products of their environment. What role do the black preachers play or are they all like Jackson, Sharpton and White? (self serving demagouges)

While I understand his point, he's conveniently forgetting a couple hundred years of history.

[donquixote99]

Another viewpoint here from the very conservative Pat Buchanan. Just adding to the dialog, not forming or crafting an opinion.

http://humanevents.com/2013/07/19/black-americas-real-problem-isnt-white-racism/

I do wonder though as to why so many black teenagers dress the way they do, listen to hip-hop, etc. Is it that they do not know this leads to a dead end or are they products of their environment. What role do the black preachers play or are they all like Jackson, Sharpton and White? (self serving demagouges)

1. They're teenagers.

[donquixote99]

Buchanan's piece is just a 'see how fucked up they are' exercise. Assigns blame to 'them' and makes others feel good. Fairly useless for any other purpose.

[Rajoo]

While I understand his point, he's conveniently forgetting a couple hundred years of history.

Right or wrong, it's a dead end for the urban black teens. When or how will they realize this.

[Rajoo]

Buchanan's piece is just a 'see how fucked up they are' exercise. Assigns blame to 'them' and makes others feel good. Fairly useless for any other purpose.

This is how the ruling class thinks or is perceived as such. What then?

[nailer]

In the early 80's I read an Atlantic Monthly article that claimed African American males were being written off. It appears that article was on target.

[finnbow]

As for the OP's "conversation about race," I'm not even sure what the phrase means other than to say that it's difficult to have one.

[BlueStreak]

Racism is a two way street, this is true. And to assume that every time a white cop shoots a black man is an act of racism is simpleminded and counterproductive, this encourages racism. However, to paint whites as hapless victims is just a bit much. As Finn pointed out, it ignores an awful lot of history and an awful lot of things that still go on to this day. Just because it isn't as overt as it was, say fifty years ago doesn't mean it no longer exists.

Buchanan is clearly attempting to establish "white victimhood" in this article. To my mind, this is just as divisive and politically motivated as anything Sharpton has ever pulled.

Dave

[MrPots]

Another viewpoint here from the very conservative Pat Buchanan. Just adding to the dialog, not forming or crafting an opinion.

http://humanevents.com/2013/07/19/black-americas-real-problem-isnt-white-racism/

I do wonder though as to why so many black teenagers dress the way they do, listen to hip-hop, etc. Is it that they do not know this leads to a dead end or are they products of their environment. What role do the black preachers play or are they all like Jackson, Sharpton and White? (self serving demagouges)

It's their culture. Just like the Chinese, Japanese, Mexicans, all of them have their own culture. We assimilate everyone else culture, so why can't we assimilate black culture? Is it too liberal?

[donquixote99]

Huh? We assimilate the heck out of black culture:

http://essaalroc.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/elvis-hips.gif?w=300&h=232

[icenine]

I would posit that unless the economy can be molded to be more inclusive to everyone, things will get worse. Just wait till the middle class gets mad about life.

[piece-itpete]

If PCs server in in the US, then are we having a discussion about race in America? :p

Anyone remember Clintons' Town Hall meetings on race?

Pete

[Zeke]

You cannot discuss race without admitting somebody got screwed. The minute you give that up, their descendents want something for it.

Until descendents lay that aside, talking about race creates more issues than it solves.

[nailer]

What's wrong with wanting to be treated as equal citizens instead of second class?

[Zeke]

What's wrong with wanting to be treated as equal citizens instead of second class?

Nothing, in a vacuum. But "equality" means different things to different people. Everyone brings their own baggage which, in their eyes, tilts the scale.

[donquixote99]

You cannot discuss race without admitting somebody got screwed. The minute you give that up, their descendents want something for it.

Until descendents lay that aside, talking about race creates more issues than it solves.

Is it fair to ask the descendents to lay everything aside, as a precondition?

What if they want acknowledgement of the past that has been handed down to them? Do we have to be so afraid that someone's going to ask for 'stuff' that was have to stifle the truth?

Makes it sound like truth doesn't matter, what matters is someone might want some of your precious stuff. Material fear is producing moral cowardice.

[finnbow]

I would offer that the Ferguson shooting has indeed resulted in a nearly non-stop "conversation on race" ever since it occurred. I doubt, however, that this conversation has gotten us anywhere. It just hardens positions as each side questions the other's motives, sincerity, etc.

[Zeke]

Is it fair to ask the descendents to lay everything aside, as a precondition?

Is it fair to ask the other side to give something up when they had nothing to do with prior history?

What if they want acknowledgement of the past that has been handed down to them? Do we have to be so afraid that someone's going to ask for 'stuff' that was have to stifle the truth?

That appears to be ongoing. Nobody teaches Manifest Destiny as a bad thing in the United States... :(

Makes it sound like truth doesn't matter, what matters is someone might want some of your precious stuff. Material fear is producing moral cowardice.

Winners write the History books.

[donquixote99]

Is it fair to ask the other side to give something up when they had nothing to do with prior history?

You answer a question with a question. Does that mean you dismiss my question, or that you acknowledge that each group has valid concerns and aspirations?


That appears to be ongoing. Nobody teaches Manifest Destiny as a bad thing in the United States... :(

Yes they do. But conservatives call it 'liberal hatred of America' when they do. :(

Winners write the History books.

Not all of them. So you are saying that people should just forget their cultural history, if the 'winners' are bothered by it?

Again, your attitude towards others seems to be summed up as 'shut up.' Don't be surprised if they don't.

But acknowledgemet of true history costs you nothing, and would be a big help.

[piece-itpete]

I doubt anyone would deny black folks got a raw deal.

However, at least in areas they are the majority in, they need to step up and take control. Blaming others begins to wear thin.

Pete

[nailer]

The leaders (politicians) who claim to represent working and lower class African Americans' interests peddle the politics of slavery to maintain the status quo.

[Zeke]

You answer a question with a question. Does that mean you dismiss my question, or that you acknowledge that each group has valid concerns and aspirations?


It means if you want the goose, you take the sauce, too.


Yes they do. But conservatives call it 'liberal hatred of America' when they do. :(

And historically justified/necessary/demanded. :rolleyes:

Not all of them. So you are saying that people should just forget their cultural history, if the 'winners' are bothered by it?

I'm saying that what your cultural history was has already been determined by the victors.

Again, your attitude towards others seems to be summed up as 'shut up.' Don't be surprised if they don't.

But acknowledgemet of true history costs you nothing, and would be a big help.

1. That's a leap.
2. Not if it's your excuse for refusing to grow.

Entitlement is a Hell of a lot more popular than personal responsibility. :(

[VanishingPoi]

While I understand his point, he's conveniently forgetting a couple hundred years of history.

He's an idiot and conveniently forgetting a lot of things.