What difference does it really make?

[Charles]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

Well, none of the politicians, perhaps. And I don't believe many average Americans want to see any violence. I know I don't. Personally, you may disagree, but I don't believe anyone in the present day left would resort to such a thing.

But, I have to say in all seriousness Charles, that I have to agree with John.

I have heard some disturbing stuff coming from the mouths of people I know.
I personally know people who went out and bought more guns and ammo after Obama was elected, because they're waiting for "the shooting to start".
Not hear-say, but coming from coworkers, neighbors, friends and family.
Then I watch and listen to what people like Palin, Beck, and Hannity are telling them and it doesn't take much of a stretch at all to see where it's coming from.

I believe these people are pushing the bounds of ethical behavior. There are ways for everyone to speak their minds without fomenting hatred. When a politician or pundit fails to discourage hateful violent speech they are, by default, encouraging it. The old "Well, I didn't tell them to say that." dodge doesn't hold any water. Allowing it to go on at a rally or a meeting without at least asking people to be civil is as good as condoning it, as far as I'm concerned.

And these guys are "testing the fences" everyday. Just because I'm a lefty doesn't mean I don't listen in on Limbaugh, Boortz, et al. Back in my Republican days I listened to these guys all of the time. Then they mostly used reason. But I heard it gradually evolving towards demonization, villification, and belittlement until I could no longer stand it. That was ten years ago. Now it has gotten completely absurd, IMHO. And it needs to stop.
They can still speak their minds without all of the theatrics and derogatory hyperbole, people have been doing that for thousands of years.

Have a clementine evening!

Dave

Lotta hate in this world, ain't there Dave.

I pretty much agree with everything that you have just said.

Especially the "been going on for thousands of years" part.

Sadly, that doesn't give me much confidence for the hope of a better future.

We're animals, just smart ones, and we run in packs.

Being a lone wolf sort, it bewilders me at times.

I could speculate on the utlimate answer, but it's a moot point. It will have to be enacted by the general population.

Hagel was correct in his theory that war was the natural state, people only use peace as a time to build up for the next war.

What else it new?

Chas

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by Charles

Lotta hate in this world, ain't there Dave.

I pretty much agree with everything that you have just said.

Especially the "been going on for thousands of years" part.

Sadly, that doesn't give me much confidence for the hope of a better future.

We're animals, just smart ones, and we run in packs.

Being a lone wolf sort, it bewilders me at times.

I could speculate on the utlimate answer, but it's a moot point. It will have to be enacted by the general population.

Hagel was correct in his theory that war was the natural state, people only use peace as a time to build up for the next war.

What else it new?

Chas

Ugh. Hegel. Hegel and Nietzsche, I can't stand those guys. Unfortunately it's because I see their assessment of primal human nature as correct. I have a hard time dealing with the knowledge that I'm a part of the insanity.

Dave

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Charles

The AFA has been overtaken by militant Christians? Along with the Army and the Marines? Maybe you know something that I don't.

Yes, apparently I do but you've distorted what I said. Christian extremists have indeed gained virtual control of the Air Force Academy. It's pretty well documented. What I said about the Army and Marines is that skinheads/Neo-Nazis are joining in large numbers. That too is documented.

It appears to me that the problem seems to be coming from Islamist radicals at this point. And the far left wing.

Why, because of one guy at Ft. Hood? You consider him to be from "the far left wing"???

Blaming radicalism on the "right wing" is nothing more than using them for a straw man. The right wing has their bad actors, but what exactly have they done?

I gave you a partial list in another post. Here it is again:

There was the guy in Pittsburgh who killed three cops because right wing talkers had convinced him Obama was going to take his guns away.

There was also the guy in Tennessee who shot up a Unitarian church because it was as close as he felt he could come to killing all the liberals and gays on Bernard Goldberg's list of "100 People Who Are Screwing Up America".

There was the right winger in Maine who was building a dirty bomb but whose wife shot and killed him before he could do any harm.

There was the right winger who went on a murderous rampage at the DC Holocaust Museum.

And of course, there was Tim McVeigh who blew up the Federal office building in Oklahoma City so as to provoke an overreaction from the government, thus causing a right wing revolt a la "The Turner Diaries".

I could go on but I won't because I'm sure you get the idea.

Now, I challenge you to give me one single example of something equivalent from the left.

John

[Charles]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Yes, apparently I do but you've distorted what I said. Christian extremists have indeed gained virtual control of the Air Force Academy. It's pretty well documented. What I said about the Army and Marines is that skinheads/Neo-Nazis are joining in large numbers. That too is documented.



Why, because of one guy at Ft. Hood? You consider him to be from "the far left wing"???



I gave you a partial list in another post. Here it is again:

There was the guy in Pittsburgh who killed three cops because right wing talkers had convinced him Obama was going to take his guns away.

There was also the guy in Tennessee who shot up a Unitarian church because it was as close as he felt he could come to killing all the liberals and gays on Bernard Goldberg's list of "100 People Who Are Screwing Up America".

There was the right winger in Maine who was building a dirty bomb but whose wife shot and killed him before he could do any harm.

There was the right winger who went on a murderous rampage at the DC Holocaust Museum.

And of course, there was Tim McVeigh who blew up the Federal office building in Oklahoma City so as to provoke an overreaction from the government, thus causing a right wing revolt a la "The Turner Diaries".

I could go on but I won't because I'm sure you get the idea.

Now, I challenge you to give me one single example of something equivalent from the left.

John

Bill Ayers and his associates?

Chas

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by Charles

Lotta hate in this world, ain't there Dave.

Yup. It's unfortunate. But if we all work toghether maybe we can move things forward and get to a better place. This is America. I think we can do it.

Originally Posted by Charles

Hagel was correct in his theory that war was the natural state, people only use peace as a time to build up for the next war.

Er, maybe I'm wrong.

[Boreas]

Now, I challenge you to give me one single example of something equivalent from the left.

Originally Posted by Charles

Bill Ayers and his associates?

Chas

The fact that you had to go back nearly 40 years to find an example speaks volumes. Also, the Weather Underground never killed anyone except a few of their own in a bomb-making accident.

John

[piece-itpete]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak

I believe these people are pushing the bounds of ethical behavior. There are ways for everyone to speak their minds without fomenting hatred. When a politician or pundit fails to discourage hateful violent speech they are, by default, encouraging it. The old "Well, I didn't tell them to say that." dodge doesn't hold any water. Allowing it to go on at a rally or a meeting without at least asking people to be civil is as good as condoning it, as far as I'm concerned.

Dave, I seem to recall not that long ago when Bush was in office lefties foaming at the mouth 32 times a day.

Originally Posted by Boreas

Christian extremists have indeed gained virtual control of the Air Force Academy. It's pretty well documented. What I said about the Army and Marines is that skinheads/Neo-Nazis are joining in large numbers. That too is documented.

You mean the same militant Christians that have been in control from the start? Here, in the solidly always atheist USA? Never never.

Pete

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

You mean the same militant Christians that have been in control from the start? Here, in the solidly always atheist USA? Never never.

Pete

Pete, do some investigation. No, I'm not talking about our "Christian Nation". I'm talking about radical militant & militaristic fundamentalists who have achieved places of influence in the AFA. There is systematic harassment of non-Christian personnel or personnel who aren't quite the right flavor of Christian. This is no secret. Just google it and you'll see. While you're at it, check out the White Supremacist program of infiltrating the military. These groups are actually telling their young members to join up so they can convert the armed forces into a modern day SS.

John

[spasmo55]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Pete, do some investigation. No, I'm not talking about our "Christian Nation". I'm talking about radical militant & militaristic fundamentalists who have achieved places of influence in the AFA. There is systematic harassment of non-Christian personnel or personnel who aren't quite the right flavor of Christian. This is no secret. Just google it and you'll see. While you're at it, check out the White Supremacist program of infiltrating the military. These groups are actually telling their young members to join up so they can convert the armed forces into a modern day SS.

John

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your heart it will creep

Perhaps when you move from Cal to Maryland, you should drive and stop at some military bases along the way. I don't think you can find a more diverse group of people in the country.

The military may be the best place for the little "Whiteys", because when that black kid from Detroit, PR from NYC or "Beaner" from East LA, saves their ass in a fire fight, they will get "re-educated" in a way their parents will not be able to "spin".

Just my thoughts

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by spasmo55

Perhaps when you move from Cal to Maryland, you should drive and stop at some military bases along the way. I don't think you can find a more diverse group of people in the country.

I'm a vet, was in the infantry. During my time in the service it was very diverse (because of the draft). I learned a lot about other people then and came away from the experience the liberal you see before you today. The sad part is I know a lot of people who left that experience more confirmed in their hatreds and prejudices than they were when they went in.

Today, in the era of the all volunteer military, there is far less cultural diversity. Yes, all races are represented but not all social classes. You don't really see many people from the upper tiers of society. That's what happens when you make military service an economic choice instead of an obligation.

And I'll bet you didn't try to verify the truth of what I said either.

John