If I believed in Karma: BP, Iran, the CIA.

[diamondsoul]

If I believed in Karma I might think that this mess that BP is involved in was karmically related to the US's involved in the overthrow of the democratically elected government of Iran in 1953. Which was ironically primarily motivated to economically benefit BP which was then called the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Ir..._d%27%C3%A9tat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Persian_Oil_Company

Cheers

Lar

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by diamondsoul

If I believed in Karma I might think that this mess that BP is involved in was karmically related to the US's involved in the overthrow of the democratically elected government of Iran in 1953. Which was ironically primarily motivated to economically benefit BP which was then called the Anglo-Iranian oil Company.

Yes, but when you have this nexus of corrupt government officials, lax regulation, incompetent corporate management and inadequate technology Kermit Roosevelt gets a pass on this one.

John

[diamondsoul]

Originally Posted by Boreas

Yes, but when you have this nexus of corrupt government officials, lax regulation, incompetent corporate management and inadequate technology Kermit Roosevelt gets a pass on this one.

John

Had never heard of Kermit grandson of Teddy. Interesting character.

Actually the nationalization of Iran's oil production only made profound sense for Iran, for Iranians. The wealth that the Brits literally drained from Iran was vast and Iranians benefited very little from that wealth.

Much of the present dysfunction in the Middle East can be directly traced to what Britain and other Western powers did there after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire.

If it wasn't for the oil we'd be no more interested in Iraq, Iran, Saudi, etc. than we are in the Congo, Sudan and Somalia.

It is what truly motivates us which is the true measure of our character as nations.

Cheers

Lar

[piece-itpete]

You know, in that part of the world they had a cheerful habit of cutting off heads long before we had anything to do with them.

While I agree that we have done a lot of damage, their hateful ways belong to them, not us.

Pete

PS: BP in America was formerly Standard Oil.

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

You know, in that part of the world they had a cheerful habit of cutting off heads long before we had anything to do with them.

True enough. But if it weren't for the oil nexus, we wouldn't care. See Ruwanda, Sierra Leone, Somalia, etc.

[diamondsoul]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

You know, in that part of the world they had a cheerful habit of cutting off heads long before we had anything to do with them.

While I agree that we have done a lot of damage, their hateful ways belong to them, not us.

Pete

PS: BP in America was formerly Standard Oil.

Not sure but I think I might prefer the sword to gas, hanging, or electrocution.

When Canada was doing it last hangings, many moons ago I might add, there was a few fellows that had to be rehung because of the hangman's miscalculation to do with weight and drop.

Tribalism and the brutality it spawns is one of the banes of the Middle East for sure. 'Honor' killings and a corrupt judiciary make sure only the wealthy get any sort of justice. Changing this established way of living is near impossible through force though, it only hardens attitudes and widens divides.

For instance: thing is that it is far past time when how funds are used to 'educate' and 'democratize' 'backward nations is examined rationally. I have a feeling that if the 100's of billions of dollars which have been used to destroy the infrastructure and culture of Iraq had been instead used to actually create better infrastructure, health care, and education etc. that our results would be a bit more positive.

Cheers

Lar

[d-ray657]

Originally Posted by diamondsoul

Not sure but I think I might prefer the sword to gas, hanging, or electrocution.

When Canada was doing it last hangings, many moons ago I might add, there was a few fellows that had to be rehung because of the hangman's miscalculation to do with weight and drop.

Tribalism and the brutality it spawns is one of the banes of the Middle East for sure. 'Honor' killings and a corrupt judiciary make sure only the wealthy get any sort of justice. Changing this established way of living is near impossible through force though, it only hardens attitudes and widens divides.

For instance: thing is that it is far past time when how funds are used to 'educate' and 'democratize' 'backward nations is examined rationally. I have a feeling that if the 100's of billions of dollars which have been used to destroy the infrastructure and culture of Iraq had been instead used to actually create better infrastructure, health care, and education etc. that our results would be a bit more positive.

Cheers

Lar

But it's not macho to build infrastructure and provide health care - even here. Those things are allegedly going to cause us to face a tax increase, while spending on bombs and munitions and Haliburton had nothing to do with the creation of the deficit. Fact is, our politicians would rather spend money on bombs than roads, clinics and schools.

Regards,

D-Ray

[diamondsoul]

Originally Posted by d-ray657

But it's not macho to build infrastructure and provide health care - even here. Those things are allegedly going to cause us to face a tax increase, while spending on bombs and munitions and Haliburton had nothing to do with the creation of the deficit. Fact is, our politicians would rather spend money on bombs than roads, clinics and schools.

Regards,

D-Ray

Exactly!

Not only not macho but not politically expedient. Unfortunately we the people don't find out what the true motivations were until a generation or more later.

Cheers

Lar

[piece-itpete]

Finn, understood, 'cept we did try in Somalia (that meddling Bush Sr. Seriously I don't understand why we went in).

Lar, did you ever read about the first electrocution? Ugly. They didn't have enough juice to kill the guy. I'd prefer the gas, hanging by an expert (for your reason or, too long a fall and it rips the head off), or a well maintained guillotine. Headcutting is WAY too messy. Unless you bribe the executioner

Charming topic. There's a report on the guillotine written during the French Revolution, a doctor did an experiment to see if the decapitated head still responded by blinking (arrainged beforehand with the unfortunate). 'It' did

I'm not excusing our brutalities earlier in the ME, just saying I'm not going to excuse their current ones either. Their institutionalized hate is beyond the pale and on them.

Hard to rebuild their infrastructure with the Butcher in power. We're doing it now

Nice to meet you btw.

Pete

[finnbow]

Originally Posted by piece-itpete

Finn, understood, 'cept we did try in Somalia (that meddling Bush Sr. Seriously I don't understand why we went in).

Lar, did you ever read about the first electrocution? Ugly. They didn't have enough juice to kill the guy. I'd prefer the gas, hanging by an expert (for your reason or, too long a fall and it rips the head off), or a well maintained guillotine. Headcutting is WAY too messy. Unless you bribe the executioner

Charming topic. There's a report on the guillotine written during the French Revolution, a doctor did an experiment to see if the decapitated head still responded by blinking (arrainged beforehand with the unfortunate). 'It' did .

Cheery topic, Pete.

On the bright side on things, our incursion into Somalia, Operation Restore Hope, was done for humanitarian reasons (i.e., guarantee the delivery of humanitarian aid to Somalia) as opposed kicking the ass of someone we saw as a threat (Iraq, Afghanistan). I guess the lesson from all of these incursions, regardless of their reasons, is that you can't civilize such places at the barrel of a gun. The seem content (if that's the right word) to live in the middle ages.