Gruuuuuuuber!

[bobabode]

Here's a guy who puts this latest wingnut 'outrage du jour' in perspective.

http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...mn.html#page=1

[donquixote99]

Very well-spoken column. A teaser:

As for the voters’ intelligence, Gruber’s remarks threaten to become a self-fulfilling prophesy. To treat them as important really is stupid.

[bobabode]

If you liked that take, here's Charlie Pierce from Esquire in his own inimitable way.

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politic...onathan_Gruber

"Now, Gruber is the target du jour because of some impolitic remarks he made about how this particular sausage got made. The latest, and silliest one, is that Gruber allegedly kept secret the fact that the initial mechanism for Romneycare in Massachusetts was a bit of legerdemain regarding Medicaid. The Daily Caller, the rickety scaffold on which Tucker Carlson has hung up the bleeding carcass of his career, is thumping the tub vigorously on this one, conveniently eliding the fact that it was Governor Willard Romney who worked with Kennedy to finesse the money in question. And, also, it's not like Gruber's been seriously keeping this a secret. Again, back during the campaign, he was quite open about it with me, two years ago."

[Ike Bana]

Maybe saying it was dumb. But Gruber was right. When it comes to health care, the majority of Americans love their employer sponsored health care and resist EU/Canada style single payer. That makes them either idiots or massively sick narcissists.

[donquixote99]

The majority of Americans are neither idiots nor massively sick narcissists. Calling the majority of Americans hyperbolic names is not productive, and opens you up to the charge of being an elitist liberal who wants to force his will on the majority, which he disrespects.

So I condemn your characterization of 'the majority of Americans,' In my opinion, it's a wrong view and not typical of liberals, who in general have warm regard for their fellow countrymen. Liberals know that the majority of Americans, on the national level, support liberal goals when the alternatives are made clear to them.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

The majority of Americans are neither idiots nor massively sick narcissists. Calling the majority of Americans hyperbolic names is not productive, and opens you up to the charge of being an elitist liberal who wants to force his will on the majority, which he disrespects.

So I condemn your characterization of 'the majority of Americans,' In my opinion, it's a wrong view and not typical of liberals, who in general have warm regard for their fellow countrymen. Liberals know that the majority of Americans, on the national level, support liberal goals when the alternatives are made clear to them.

You have considerably more faith in your fellow man than I your donship. Condemn away. The only noble mammals on this planet are the beasts. Humanity is a plague.

[JJIII]

Originally Posted by Ike Bana

You have considerably more faith in your fellow man than I your donship. Condemn away. The only noble mammals on this planet are the beasts. Humanity is a plague.

"Cynicism is what passes for insight among the mediocre. - Joe Klein "

Class, this is an example of "Irony".

[merrylander]

Originally Posted by donquixote99

The majority of Americans are neither idiots nor massively sick narcissists. Calling the majority of Americans hyperbolic names is not productive, and opens you up to the charge of being an elitist liberal who wants to force his will on the majority, which he disrespects.

So I condemn your characterization of 'the majority of Americans,' In my opinion, it's a wrong view and not typical of liberals, who in general have warm regard for their fellow countrymen. Liberals know that the majority of Americans, on the national level, support liberal goals when the alternatives are made clear to them.

But DQ what on earth does it take to 'make things clear' to them? I think the original Tea Party shaped the national character. Britain sent troops to quell the Indians (who did not appreciate having their lands stolen). The tea tax was imposed to pay for those troops (among other things). So now we have this national character that wants and wants, but would rather someone else pay for it.

[donquixote99]

Originally Posted by merrylander

But DQ what on earth does it take to 'make things clear' to them? I think the original Tea Party shaped the national character. Britain sent troops to quell the Indians (who did not appreciate having their lands stolen). The tea tax was imposed to pay for those troops (among other things). So now we have this national character that wants and wants, but would rather someone else pay for it.

I think it's fairer to say that taking the continent away from the Indians shaped that national character, than to say one long-ago tax protest did. And TV commercials shape the national character, by teaching children from an early age that making money is more important than anything, and it's OK to say anything to do it. And ethnic jokes shape the national character, by teaching children what groups are held in disdain.

As to how to make things clear, study FDR. He did a very good job of it.

[Ike Bana]

Originally Posted by merrylander

But DQ what on earth does it take to 'make things clear' to them? I think the original Tea Party shaped the national character. Britain sent troops to quell the Indians (who did not appreciate having their lands stolen). The tea tax was imposed to pay for those troops (among other things). So now we have this national character that wants and wants, but would rather someone else pay for it.

They not only want somebody else to pay for it, they're willing to poison the planet and likely leave nothing for their progeny down the road but flooded lowlands and desert where farmland once fed them. But they'll get what they want and get it right now. The only good thing about this is that it doesn't guarantee inevitable catastrophe for the planet, only for humanity. The planet will recover, it's the humans who will destroy themselves. But it'll be great while it lasts.