Suicide Bomber Auction In Syria

[djv8ga]

I wasn't really sure where to put this, but since it's an Islamic thing, I put it here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FqSWvGMqjw

[d-ray657]

The guy's a real modern day Abraham.:(

Can any of you parents imagine doing that?

Regards,

D-Ray

[Big_Bill]

Only Abraham did not auction off his son, he was commanded to offer his son.

This father is just a merchant, selling off his children to the highest bidder. I wonder if he will be selling off his daughters next ?

And we worry about collateral damage ? We should fight enemies by their standards and rules, not by rules written by civilized nations. Give them all their 72 virgins, and a one way trip to whoever they believe in. Before they walk up behind us and and send us to our God.

400,000 dollars U.S. for your son, that you are sending off to be a suicide murderer.

[d-ray657]

Only Abraham did not auction off his son, he was commanded to offer his son.

This father is just a merchant, selling off his children to the highest bidder. I wonder if he will be selling off his daughters next ?

And we worry about collateral damage ? We should fight enemies by their standards and rules, not by rules written by civilized nations. Give them all their 72 virgins, and a one way trip to whoever they believe in. Before they walk up behind us and and send us to our God.

400,000 dollars U.S. for your son, that you are sending off to be a suicide murderer.

I did not mean the Abraham reference to be a favorable comparison (but I do appreciate your biblical scholarship). I understand your perspective about the opponent's tactics, given as one who has been there. Nevertheless, the idealist in me does not want to see us operating without standards, even in war.

Regards,

D-Ray

[Big_Bill]

I did not mean the Abraham reference to be a favorable comparison (but I do appreciate your biblical scholarship). I understand your perspective about the opponent's tactics, given as one who has been there. Nevertheless, the idealist in me does not want to see us operating without standards, even in war.

Regards,

D-Ray



"STANDARDS" ??? Then I'm afraid that we will need to send Lawyers off to war to interpret or define these standards.

Since war is always fluid and changing, and very often chaotic, we will need to have lawyers to fight our wars with standards. I hope for their sakes that our enemies send lawyers also, or we will loose these wars very quickly. As I fear there lawyers may have standards, but not morality or honor.

[d-ray657]

I am talking about standards like operating in a manner that will minimize civilian casualties. That is a policy that is set at the civilian level, and then turned over the the military professionals to implement. You're not suggesting that the commanders and strategists should make all decisions without regard to the risk of harming or killing civilians? I understand that those who engage in suicide bombings do so with the intent to maximize rather than minimize civilian casualties. I would rather that we stay at the opposite end of that spectrum.

Other standards would include prohibiting torture and humane treatment of prisoners of war. Do you suggest abandoning those as well.

Regards,

D-Ray

[djv8ga]

I was just thinking how funny it is to read these posts about "standards" when the thread is about suicide bombers.
War sure has changed and not for the better if that makes any sense(?).

[BlueStreak]

Ahhh, yes. Religion. What can I say?

[d-ray657]

I was just thinking how funny it is to read these posts about "standards" when the thread is about suicide bombers.
War sure has changed and not for the better if that makes any sense(?).

I guess my point is that I don't want to be from a society that would sink to the level of a society that auctions off it's sons to commit suicide/murder. I don't want us to be what they are.

Regards,

D-Ray

[Big_Bill]

I guess my point is that I don't want to be from a society that would sink to the level of a society that auctions off it's sons to commit suicide/murder. I don't want us to be what they are.

Regards,

D-Ray



Since you mention it Dray,

We draw lots to determine whose son goes to war, and their fathers and/ or families get nothing ?

The people that we are dealing with in the sandbox, laugh at or weakness. Humanity, civilized behavior, rules , these are things for the weak.

Some have laughed at me here, but you must be what you must be, to survive. Nothing more, nothing less.

[bobabode]

Since you mention it Dray,


The people that we are dealing with in the sandbox, laugh at or weakness. Humanity, civilized behavior, rules , these are things for the weak.

.

There is a moral high ground to be maintained if we wish to continue being the country our forefathers envisioned. Anything less would be a betrayal of the sacrifices suffered by our countrymen and women - whether active duty or civilian past and present.

To simply ignore our obligations to the Geneva Accords and stoop to the level of the jihadists would in my opinion do far worse damage to the country than any attack they could dream up.

I understand your visceral argument in favor of loosing the dogs of war on these cowards that fly planes into office towers but scorched earth and the salting of it really isn't our thing as Americans.

Now the active and selective targeting of people bent on our destruction is a much more costly endeavor but how could we look ourselves in the mirror each day knowing that we stooped (for expedience sake) to carpet bombing whole areas to get a few criminals hiding therein?

[Charles]

Only Abraham did not auction off his son, he was commanded to offer his son.

This father is just a merchant, selling off his children to the highest bidder. I wonder if he will be selling off his daughters next ?

And we worry about collateral damage ? We should fight enemies by their standards and rules, not by rules written by civilized nations. Give them all their 72 virgins, and a one way trip to whoever they believe in. Before they walk up behind us and and send us to our God.

400,000 dollars U.S. for your son, that you are sending off to be a suicide murderer.

You ought to be able to get most anybody taken care of for 10-50K.

Chas

[d-ray657]

Since you mention it Dray,

We draw lots to determine whose son goes to war, and their fathers and/ or families get nothing ?



The days of drawing lots are over. Nowadays, the military is - for some - an employer of last resort; for others it is the only feasible way of financing a college education. Granted, for some a military life is chosen primarily out of a sense of duty, but overall I would suggest that we have an economic draft.

Regards,

D-Ray

[Rex E.]

Give them all their 72 virgins, and a one way trip to whoever they believe in.


I like the Family Guy take on this where the guy shows up to heaven and there are 72 virgins waiting for him and all of them are men :D

[Big_Bill]

There is a moral high ground to be maintained if we wish to continue being the country our forefathers envisioned. Anything less would be a betrayal of the sacrifices suffered by our countrymen and women - whether active duty or civilian past and present.

To simply ignore our obligations to the Geneva Accords and stoop to the level of the jihadists would in my opinion do far worse damage to the country than any attack they could dream up.

I understand your visceral argument in favor of loosing the dogs of war on these cowards that fly planes into office towers but scorched earth and the salting of it really isn't our thing as Americans.

Now the active and selective targeting of people bent on our destruction is a much more costly endeavor but how could we look ourselves in the mirror each day knowing that we stooped (for expedience sake) to carpet bombing whole areas to get a few criminals hiding therein?


High Moral Ground is a fine thing when playing football. War is WAR, and if you do not intend to win, surrender, or don't get involved at all.

We have been in Afghanistan 10 years now, and lost 1,974 and counting soldiers. We have also had 14,000 wounded soldiers, and I feel so badly for many of them that survived. Death would have been far more desirable to me that a life like some of them will be forced to bear.

WWII, 6 years, 291,557 Americans Killed, 670,846 Wounded, but we came, we fought, we conquered. Rules have no place in a life and death "game". It only matters who wins and looses, and who lives and who dies.

For those that sit at home and want to believe that American Forces are nice guys that play fair, Fock You ! We are their to win, and hopefully return home to live our lives after we win. Everything else is survival and making heroes of the people we were sent to kill. And Yes I Know that WE did not WIN in Vietnam, neither did you !

[d-ray657]

I doubt that that is what they teach at the military academies.

Regards,

D-Ray

[finnbow]

High Moral Ground is a fine thing when playing football. War is WAR, and if you do not intend to win, surrender, or don't get involved at all.

We have been in Afghanistan 10 years now, and lost 1,974 and counting soldiers. We have also had 14,000 wounded soldiers, and I feel so badly for many of them that survived. Death would have been far more desirable to me that a life like some of them will be forced to bear.

WWII, 6 years, 291,557 Americans Killed, 670,846 Wounded, but we came, we fought, we conquered. Rules have no place in a life and death "game". It only matters who wins and looses, and who lives and who dies.

For those that sit at home and want to believe that American Forces are nice guys that play fair, Fock You ! We are their to win, and hopefully return home to live our lives after we win. Everything else is survival and making heroes of the people we were sent to kill. And Yes I Know that WE did not WIN in Vietnam, neither did you !

Have you ever heard of "war crimes?"

[Big_Bill]

I doubt that that is what they teach at the military academies.

Regards,

D-Ray



In fact it is Dray,

They may use nice words, and call it Strategies for defeating the enemies of America, but it all boils down to blood and teas when the first bombardment is initiated, and you order your men to move out.

I'm sure that you have learned volumes about the Legal System, and the Courts since you graduated from Law School and passed your Bars.
Academies and Universities teach you what you are supposed to encounter, not what you will encounter ounce you enter the real world.
Life is never what you imagined :rolleyes:

[Big_Bill]

Have you ever heard of "war crimes?"



Yes I have my dear Finn,

They are the crimes committed by the looser of a war.

[d-ray657]

I would say that this is a demonstration about why it is essential that we have civilian command over the military, but I really don't think that is a view espoused by a majority of military professionals. I have read interviews and articles by several high ranking military officers that refute the "no holds barred" mentality.

Regards,

D-Ray

[Big_Bill]

I would say that this is a demonstration about why it is essential that we have civilian command over the military, but I really don't think that is a view espoused by a majority of military professionals. I have read interviews and articles by several high ranking military officers that refute the "no holds barred" mentality.

Regards,

D-Ray



Well then give them uniforms and send them into combat, and let them command. And when the medics pick them up and clean the shit from their pants, send them back to the front to lead ! I would love to see the civilian command the military, from the front !

And I would have to agree with you, that several high ranking politically motivated military officers, that have never been in combat, would refute the :no holds barred mentality, in order to be promoted by the civilian command.

War should be the most horrible experience imaginable. That way everyone will think twice before engaging in one. And ounce they do engage in a war, keep the week willed and week minded out of the way, and let the military win the war..

[finnbow]

Yes I have my dear Finn,

They are the crimes committed by the looser of a war.

Perhaps so, but in a counter-insurgency type war, war crimes may well contribute to losing a war, and not vice versa as you suggest. For example, the Stryker brigade killings, pissing on war dead, and posing with body parts in Afghanistan strengthen the resolve of the enemy and do nothing to further our cause.

[d-ray657]

Well then give them uniforms and send them into combat, and let them command. And when the medics pick them up and clean the shit from their pants, send them back to the front to lead ! I would love to see the civilian command the military, from the front !

And I would have to agree with you, that several high ranking politically motivated military officers, that have never been in combat, would refute the :no holds barred mentality, in order to be promoted by the civilian command.

War should be the most horrible experience imaginable. That way everyone will think twice before engaging in one. And ounce they do engage in a war, keep the week willed and week minded out of the way, and let the military win the war..

In other words, anyone who does not see it your way is weak and feeble?

Regards,

D-Ray

[Big_Bill]

Perhaps so, but in a counter-insurgency type war, war crimes may well contribute to losing a war, and not vice versa as you suggest. For example, the Stryker brigade killings, pissing on war dead, and posing with body parts in Afghanistan strengthen the resolve of the enemy and do nothing to further our cause.



Finn,

Every Muslim in Afghanistan hates our Infidel Guts, even those that bowel and take our money.

Fighting a war where we are not wanted is as useless as planting trees in a desert. Ounce we are gone, they will die.

These people hate us when the Teleban kill them, they just want us to go home.

The only way to do anything more in Afghanistan is to let the Muslims from other nations do it. They may listen to them ?

[Big_Bill]

In other words, anyone who does not see it your way is weak and feeble?

Regards,

D-Ray



Dray,

Why do you enjoy twisting my words this way ?

I speak plainly, no double entendre .

I believe that the civilian authorities should control the military, however, ounce they declare war, they should allow the trained military, whom they have entrusted the power of the world, to plan, command and execute the total operations of the war, until it is won, or lost.

The roll of politicians and ambassadors ends when war or peace is agreed upon. Political, industrial and financial matters have no place running a war, ounce it's declared.

[Zeke]

I THINK plainly...

Fixed it for you.

Political, industrial and financial matters have no place running a war, ounce it's declared.

Did I miss a declaration?

[djv8ga]

is as useless as planting trees in a desert.

Hey, I do that. :o

[Big_Bill]

Fixed it for you.



Did I miss a declaration?



No Zeke, you only missed my point. Unless a a declaration of war is made by Congress, we should not be there murdering the indigenous people of a country.

But you often miss the points as they are made, and make up you own. So go back to sleep for now, and someone will wake you when something important is written.

[Zeke]

...someone will wake you when something important is written.

I notice that nobody -- ever -- leaps to do such after your missives. :rolleyes:

[wgrr]

No Zeke, you only missed my point. Unless a a declaration of war is made by Congress, we should not be there murdering the indigenous people of a country.

But you often miss the points as they are made, and make up you own. So go back to sleep for now, and someone will wake you when something important is written.

Congress has not passed a formal declaration of war since WWII.

Korea, Vietnam, the occupation of Lebanon, Grenada, Panama, The Gulf war, Operation Enduring Freedom, operation Iraqi Freedom these and hundreds more are not formally declared wars in our history. They are Military engagements authorized by Congress or Military engagements authorized by United Nations Security Council Resolutions and funded by Congress.

Are you just using declaration of war as a blanket statement or do you believe we should only engage in wars actually declared by Congress.

I have a problem with the decision to go to war being handed over to the Executive branch who has Congress rubber stamp the decision. I think we need to think long and hard before we enter the battlefield. Sadly, that is not this countries history.

[djv8ga]

I have a problem with the decision to go to war being handed over to the Executive branch who has Congress rubber stamp the decision. I think we need to think long and hard before we enter the battlefield. Sadly, that is not this countries history.
Amen brother.

[d-ray657]

Amen brother.

Dadgummit it DJ. You're making it harder to fit you into a pigeonhole. I mean, how can you be a wingnut without being a warmonger. :rolleyes:

Regards,

D-Ray

[djv8ga]

Dadgummit it DJ. You're making it harder to fit you into a pigeonhole. I mean, how can you be a wingnut without being a warmonger. :rolleyes:

Regards,

D-Ray
The only thing I'm more conservative about than money is life.

[d-ray657]

The only thing I'm more conservative about than money is life.

Well said.

Regards,

D-Ray

[BlueStreak]

The only thing I'm more conservative about than money is life.

Cool. I can dig it.:)

[budgetaudio6]

i xix not read all of this thread. nor do i intend to. But any person who is taught to commit murder by suicide, should be torn apart, first by the nails. then the fingers. then the limbs. But toes and feet come first before the limbs. and each tear has to be cauterized to slow death. For an example to any other would be suicide bomber or otherwise...death penalty to the extreme.

[noonereal]

i xix not read all of this thread. nor do i intend to. But any person who is taught to commit murder by suicide, should be torn apart, first by the nails. then the fingers. then the limbs. But toes and feet come first before the limbs. and each tear has to be cauterized to slow death. For an example to any other would be suicide bomber or otherwise...death penalty to the extreme.

I don't think this would quailify as a purely academic response.;)

[Rex E.]

i xix not read all of this thread. nor do i intend to. But any person who is taught to commit murder by suicide, should be torn apart, first by the nails. then the fingers. then the limbs. But toes and feet come first before the limbs. and each tear has to be cauterized to slow death. For an example to any other would be suicide bomber or otherwise...death penalty to the extreme.

Pershing had a far more effective way of dealing with issues like this.

[d-ray657]

I find those who send the suicide bombers off on their missions more deserving of condemnation. As a father, I find the underlying story particularly obscene. My son may want to sell his soul for rock n roll, but I'd slap him silly if he talked about strapping a bomb around his waist.

Regards,

D-Ray

[Big_Bill]

IMO. If I felt that becoming a suicide bomber was necessary to remove a target, I would do it myself. I have lived most of my life, and I would hope that my children would live most, if not all of theirs.

It seems old men are preying on the young and stupid to do these bombings in the name of their religions, and telling the young men of the great rewards they will receive in heaven ??? If it's so great dad, why ain't you going first.

And if it were so great, the Mullahs would be fighting over who would be going next, or so you would think .

[noonereal]

IMO. If I felt that becoming a suicide bomber was necessary to remove a target, I would do it myself. I have lived most of my life, and I would hope that my children would live most, if not all of theirs.

It seems old men are preying on the young and stupid to do these bombings in the name of their religions, and telling the young men of the great rewards they will receive in heaven ??? If it's so great dad, why ain't you going first.

And if it were so great, the Mullahs would be fighting over who would be going next, or so you would think .

If fact, if it is so great to be dead why has not the entire Islamic extremist element put themselves to death?

What is the point of caring about what happens here?

BTW this is a serious question.

What is the point of caring about what happens here, living here on earth if death is the ultimate reward?

[d-ray657]

IMO. If I felt that becoming a suicide bomber was necessary to remove a target, I would do it myself. I have lived most of my life, and I would hope that my children would live most, if not all of theirs.

It seems old men are preying on the young and stupid to do these bombings in the name of their religions, and telling the young men of the great rewards they will receive in heaven ??? If it's so great dad, why ain't you going first.

And if it were so great, the Mullahs would be fighting over who would be going next, or so you would think .

We seem to have found some common ground.

In fact, having to constantly face the thought that I intentionally sent my child to his death would make me doubt whether I wanted to live any longer.

Regards,

D-Ray

[merrylander]

My oldest Brother died of cancer in his early sixties. Watching my Mother at the graveside told me that no loving parent ever, ever wants to outlive their children.

These people are sick.

[piece-itpete]

I don't think this would quailify as a purely academic response.;)

LMAO!!

Pete